Audiophiles?

Hmm, may have a go at those - though I've never heard them!!!! At the present price they gotta be cheap.

I paid £2300 for my Anny (arm/cartridge not included). I've been offered £2k for it alone but there's no way I would ever sell it. Until Arthur puts them back into production, they will remain extremely expensive 2nd hand.

Tony

Karnevil9

Anniversaries are rare (c400 made I think) and those who like the sound (or complete lack of it) will pay big money second hand. The bass is astonishingly deep but dry - you can tell easily the model of bass a bassist is using when you would have no chance on a LInn or Rega 3 (which I rate highly in the budget range). I have had no problem with the bearing; it's a novel design and seems to work well. The Audiolab amps and Mission speakers are also very neutral - that's the way I like it, but I accept it's not everybody's taste.

I heard a Logic DM 101 many years ago but the amp and speakers were not good (Pioneer + Bose (YUK!!!)) so it had no chance. Hence I can't comment on how it will sound in a decent system. My old Systemdek IIX does not disgrace itself against the Pink and still punches a long way above its price - I suspect so will the Logic. It will beat a Linn, I'm sure.

Best Wishes

Tony

Oliver,

Sorry, but I auditioned interconnects from £20 to 300 and speaker cable from £8 to £100 a metre when I chose my system (I had up to £30000 to spend if I wanted to!). Starting with my own Linn LP12 as source, there was almost no difference until I put a Roksan Xerxes (my original choice of TT) into the system when subtle differences between the extremes could be discerned. When I substituted the Pink Triangle Anniversary (the most neutral and transparent deck ever built without any argument) it was clear that there was a small difference but that a set of £90 interconnects (Sonic Link Violets) were every bit as good as the most expensive. Changing amps etc affected the sound VASTLY more than any tiny differences between the cables and you certainly couldn't tell any difference at all on a TT as third rate and outdated as an LP12.

Can I ask you, have you ever actually ever HEARD an LP12 (or a PT Anniversary for that matter) or are you just going on what your friend says? I have owned both and I can't take anyone seriously who suggests for one second that an LP12 is a reference over a PT Anniversary and that I can't hear subtle differences on my system because it's "average" when it is one of the most transparent systems possible. If you could fault my system, it's TOO neutral and transparent for some and a few people find it sterile, especially those who love the fat, warm valve sound. Personally, I like what I've got!!

 

1) I don't pretend to be a scientist - I am one by profession. Fact.

2) Of course I appreciate the effects of vibration - on mechanical systems such as CD players, speakers and turntables. Valves are not mechanical and I see no way that vibration will adversely affect their performance if they are securely fixed.

3) Yes, the mains is slightly affected by fluctuations in loading. That's why my PT uses an AC supply to charge a battery to power a DC motor. It's more stable that way. But it's only the voltage that's affected and in the UK the mains has been slightly downgraded from 240V RMS to 230V RMS to reduce this.

4) I agree that the test of a system is how it sounds - and I have not yet heard a cable or interconnect or a plug that significantly affects the quality of a system compared to the components in it. Physically, the capacitive, inductive and resistive differences of decent quality cables are relatively minimal and should not be significant. The output characteristics of devices vary far more. Of course, you may know better than I do.

 

Tony Fisher BSc, MSc, MEd.

You pretend to be a scientist, so how can you doubt of bad effects of vibrations on devices?
That's obvious that it works when you do the test.
Tubes, for example, are very subject to vibes.
That's why you have a huge improvement when you put a steel triangle under a tube amp.
Anyway, only listening can tell you if a theory is valid or not.
Tubes amp have higher distorsions rate than transistor ones but it's night and day in the highs when you compare to a transistor.
So, what does it means?
That distortion's rate is NOT the good criteria to judge musicality.
Thre's also a theory with pair/impair harmonics.
On the other hand, transistor are tighter and quicker in the low than tubes, that's why bi-amplification with good transistor in the low and tubes in the high is the best.

It's the same with cables: you can measure a very bad cable and an extraordinary cable: the results will be the same, but when you listen, ther's no comparison.


About Copland, that's not the worth CD ever, but there are a lot of british musical players in the same range of price that will work a lot better (Naim, Arcam, Creek, etc...).
This is just a really average source, compare to analog sources.

It's obvious that separated lines are better cause devices pollute themselves (electrically,i mean),
(the CD is the worth for that, that's why i use double if not triple power filter isolation, and have a huge improvment in term of loss of sharpness on CD.)
Moreover, devices like power amp need much power and a bigger diameter lowers the cable's resistivity.

Another phenomenon with power is that the sound is better the evening from about 11 PM, when much industries have stopped their day and so , don'tconsume power.
You hear that on a good tranparent system.
So, that's prove power's quality have an effect on sound.

Why are you getting nervous?
can't we discuss quietly?

Sorry, i haven't a numeric photo device yet...

Soon, i promise!

And what do you want me to take a pic?
My system, incuding the Studer, and the Jolida with the new wbt on it?
Or my best friend's system, including the counterpoint sa5000 preamp, goldmund mimesis IV and naka 700zxl?

And you, btw, please take a pic of your naka 1000 zxl (i remember you pretend to have one) and your whole system.

"Finally, don't confuse rhythmical and dynamic with musical. The Linn is not musical in my view because instruments don't sound natural on it."

I think the Linn reveals the defaults of your system!

Reed Lover wrote: Oliver: time to post them pictures,mate. It is the only way to end this!

Dear reed,

I'm afraid this would end nothing!
These guys pretend enormous bullsh*ts, and i keep on explaining them the basics!

.

Edited by Karnevil9

The cartridge in my LP12 was a Linn Karma in an Ittok arm. It was bought by my father in about 1985. I inherited it in 1992. At that time I had a Systemdek IIX with Mission 774 and Ortofon MC10 and Elite MCP555 cartridges going into a Nytech pre amp/tuner and Nytech power amp and finally to a pair of Tangent RS4 speakers. I still have this system as a spare. It was quite old but it still outperformed the Linn system comfortably to my ears so the Linn went. The new system is clearly better than my spare but not by that much considering the price difference.

I do not hold with the view that tube amps are that good except as room heaters. They are too warm and slow for my ears with a few exceptions. Audiolabs are so clean, neutral, fast and powerful and Naims are also excellent - both transistor models.

I generally like MCs better than MMs. I have no need of a vibration canceller as they are a fad - the acrylic platter on the PT Anniversary plus the excellent suspension and record clamp are highly effective and dampen vibration well enough on my Soundstyle table. Power cables are standard PT issue.

Finally, don't confuse rhythmical and dynamic with musical. The Linn is not musical in my view because instruments don't sound natural on it.

I like the Planar3 - my best friend has one and swears by it. For a fairly cheap deck, it's excellent value, as are the Project range. But it's not a patch on a PT Anniversary, SME, Nottingham Annalogue Hyperspace or a Roxsan Xerxes. All of these could lay claim to be best deck and I auditioned them all before choosing the Anniversary for myself.

I have not heard the Helius Orion arm myself but I have heard nothing but good reports on it so I suspect Karnevil9 will be very happy with his own Anniversary. Where in the UK are you? I e-mailed the PT's designer (Arthur Khoubesserian) recently and he tells me that he may put the Anniversary back into production and he's developed and upgrade for it. Interesting!!