Why did you reject Within Temptation?

Raff wrote: Marty McFly wrote: Not sure whether they actually are Crossover. After 1st Cd from Iron Maiden, I'm gonna listen to them again. Marty, Iron Maiden were not added to Prog-Related because of their first album, but rather on the strength of albums like Somewhere In Time, Seventh Son of a Seventh Son (a concept) and their last three studio efforts. As much as I like Maiden's first two albums (though I am not a big fan of their original singer, Paul Di Anno), there is not a whole lot of prog-relatedness to be found there.

Hey hey Raff, let's stop here. We didn't understand each other. Again, because I've said many things at once in one sentence, but that's me :-)

I meant that:

1)I'm not sure whether RE-VO are Crossover

2)I'm right now listening Iron Maiden's first CD (as I thought it's worth mentioning, as long as we're talking about them, but nothing more

3)I'm going to listen again RE-VO to determine, whether my claim about Crossover was right

But thank you anyway, all my life I just knew 2 minutes and recently get to know 666. But now here I am, listening Iron Maiden's first two albums and wondering, what's so prog about them. No no, don't take me bad here again, I'm just saying thank you.

Whew, it's hard for me to make myself clear all the time. I wonder if others has these problems too :-) Being native speaker helps, but hell, you're Italian and I have no problems understanding you.

Gotta think about this.

To paraphrase Justice Stewart  "I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description ["prog"]; and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I hear it, and the band involved in this case is not that."

Marty McFly wrote: Hey R & D, I'm myself struggling with what's and what is not prog, but still, some bands simply doesn't add up. I suppose that¨s what some of anti-WT thinks.

Marty, as a collab, you have an advantage because you can mention your suggestions, as well as helping with other people's that you pick up on, in the team threads (aside from just bumping threads).  With the general membership, it's a good idea to PM a team member if something gets missed.  I'm sporadic, but often try to listen to suggestions and alert teams about them. 

Incidentally, I do often yearn to discuss and share impressions of music with people rather than just have them added to the charts and voted on (discussing the music with people is the part of the process I enjoy).  And sometimes I'm unsure,especially with "out of the typical prog box" "left-of--field" suggestions, and want to put the music to the general public before taking it to a specific team.

Iron Maiden and Metallica were never unanimously rejected in the same way as Within Temptation. I am more familiar with the Maiden case, since I was the one who added them to Prog-Related after getting the green light from the rest of the Admin Team (I was also Admin at the time). If you want to see how the PMT voted on either band, go to www.progfreak.com, and look for the Metal chart. They were voted for Prog-Related by the majority of the then-members of the team, and I can tell you that at least one of the current members of the PMT would be in favour of having them in PM. Metallica, on the other hand, had at least one Yes vote for PM, and one for PR - Within Temptation have NOTHING but negative votes.

Raff wrote: The problem is, unlike My Dying Bride, WT were rejected twice, by two different versions of the team, and without any positive votes. That would make re-evaluation impossible, I'm afraid.

And how many times was Metallica, or Iron Maiden rejected ? Just asking, guessing they were (are) controversial additions. I'm not for WT inclusion, but sometimes, good bands are rejected, because of fear that apple (they) would spoil the basket (archives).

I for example have two bands that I posted in this section recently. By my opinion, 1st is without doubt prog and second should be prog,

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=63809
Khatsaturjan for Symphonic prog

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=64406
RE-VO, thrilling U.S.A. band for, ummmm Crossover

But nobody, or almost nobody is replying here, because 1)not so many people go here 2)if somebody goes here, they checks only well known names (including controversial).

It's hard work, but directing enthusiasm from those interested in adding these band can help it. Writing bio, adding albums, let enthusiastic ones do it and we're done with this problem :-)

micky wrote: sort of makes the 'archive' in the site name look stupid doesn't it....   for all the fear of driving people away with 'dubious' additions...  the site should REALLY fear driving people away for what doesn't get added.... and being a joke of a site at that.   The list is growing of 'recognized' prog bands that this site has not.. or will not add.

Agreed. Serious suggestion guys (and girl).

No disrespect intended Dean, I guess I should have considered my phrasing better in this matter.

I apologize.

I don't know Within Temptation unless for one or two songs, and am not too fond of those female-fronted, symphonic metal bands (regardless of whether they are prog or not - just a question of personal taste). However, I'd like to point out that they are featured in # 4 of Classic Rock presents Prog (a magazine that seems to have been quite successful, seen as has already reached # 5, and is set to continue), as well as on other prog websites (DPRP and Sea of Tranquility come to mind).

As I wrote last week somewhere in the CZ, people who like prog use more than one resource (I know I do), and they're bound to see bands elsewhere that are not featured here, and wonder. However, with the so many controversial additions we have had over the years, we cannot claim this is due to a purist approach to prog - therefore, we might end up coming across as a 'neither fish nor fowl' kind of thing, and lose a lot of our hard-won credibility. Just my two cents...

Well, when my pal MontrealRick thinks the decision merits rethinking I'm more apt to listen to him than many others with similar issues.

Someone who's been as active in the world of prog for so many years as he has kinda tends to get my attention when speaking up ;-)

That is a personal point of view though.