Why are we such bigots? (or are we?)

i hardly like any music at all

I'm obviously not justifying violence, but giving a reason for lyrics like "f**k tha police" or "cop killer" or things like that.... When you grow sorrounded by violence it's difficult to always see the bright side of life. Of course, once their songs were succesful it became a business....

The shootings part has more to do with the narcissistic individualistic way of thinking of americans and the availability of guns... obviously, violent lyrics don't help but both are different sides of the problem.... most School shootings have not been only in poor-slums material but actually white suburbs...  

The T wrote:   You seriously react as it was a personal attack against you.   7 Not at all Theo   That I understand. Now remember that most of the original gangsta rappers where born in slums, in the 'hood, where policemen stopped them just for being black (there's this running joke where one of the major crimes in black neighborhoods is "driving while black"), where abuse and violence has been againbts them for ages, from slavery they went to being oppresed by the white cop and by crack cocaine which the white man introduced in their neighborhoods.... What they sung is what they feel and what they saw... It's kind of logical to want to kill a cop when all your life cops have been abusing your community.   Bravo,we must understand why this people kill a cop, lets make them a monument....Please Theo, that's not an excuse, people giving instructuions on how to kill a cop are CRIMINALS.   Lets decriminalize killing a cop because people is opressed,,,,,,But hey, not only rappers, Jewishs were killed by the Nazis, lets allow them to kill militaries...and Native Americans were wiped by the white man, lets allow them to take revenge.   We are experts justifying everything, killing is killing and promoting homicide is a crime.   Please Theo this is absurb this criminals make this lyrics because there are idiots who buy it, they would rap about Billy Graham if he was a popular issue.    In Peru. The country we are talking abouty is the united States, where they are entitled to say whatever stupid thing they want to say. I Thank your god for freedom of speech.   That's why you have shootings and we don't, we have other kind of vilolence, it's time to care more about the rights of the innocent and honest citizen.   . Sometimes I get those ideas. May be an exaggeration of course.   Most surely   Iván

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - June 26 2009 at 12:24

hitting_singularity2 wrote: Ivan, I'm sorry if you can't get over the lyrics and message of most mainstream (and non-mainstream) rap, and I completely agree with you that our kids should not be hearing that kind of crap and it should be banned.  For the lyrics.  But frankly thats all i can see that is keeping you from an amazing genre that is different and is one of the only mainstream genres that is dare I say PROGRESSIVE.

BaldFriede wrote: I sincerely doubt it, and contrary to you I don't see any signs of this happening. The problem is that music used to be an important topic in school, but today it has been degraded to a minor subject which (at least in Germany) can even be dropped completely once you reach tenth grade. And hardly any kids learn an instrument anymore. Fortunately this problem has been spotted in North Rhine-Westphalia, the federal state of Germany I live in. There now is an initiative called "For every kid an instrument", whose goal is exactly that, and it has started pretty well. Let's hope it will show some results in the future.

Well the results are not perhaps ideal, but what I'm saying is that currently we are seeing more complex bands have a greater appeal as opposed to the 90s. Bands like Between the Buried and Me or Coheed and Cambria are actually rather well-known, and Explosions in the Sky are practically gods in the Indie scene (which isn't saying much, I know, but still...) which is certainly a step up from the grunge and boy-band dominated 90s. I'm coming to realize that with the advent of the internet, what gets played on the radio isn't always an accurate reflection of what people are listening to.

Ivan, I'm sorry if you can't get over the lyrics and message of most mainstream (and non-mainstream) rap, and I completely agree with you that our kids should not be hearing that kind of crap and it should be banned.  For the lyrics.  But frankly thats all i can see that is keeping you from an amazing genre that is different and is one of the only mainstream genres that is dare I say PROGRESSIVE.  I agree with BaldFriede completely that the reason mainstream stuff sucks so much is that the labels and producers and whatnot are trying to imitate what is popular...making the most un-prograssive music popular.  This is very true with mainstream rock, but hip-hop producers/artists have a very different frame of mind and are constantly trying to bring new ideas and new music to the genre.  for the hell of it here are two hiphop artists that come to mind that are good and aren't obscene: TTC, and The Dawnbreaker Collective.  oh and the Gorrilaz for what they have contributed to hiphop.. A very progressive band btw

Edited by hitting_singularity2 - June 26 2009 at 01:41

KingCrimson250 wrote: You see this all over the place: Jazz started out as a way for people to get their groove on in clubs, but overtime it grew and grew and musicians pushed it as far as it would go. Of course, by a certain point most people lost interest with jazz because it had simply become too heady, but then a man named Elvis Presley comes in and suddenly you've got music you can dance to again. That music, in turn, would slowly grow and become increasingly complex until you've got the Beatles and the 70s Prog movement, which enjoys a good amount of success until, again, it just goes too far for most people and suddenly Punk is in demand. Punk slowly gives way to the virtuosity of metal, which in turn gets replaced by the grunge scene of the 90s. I think we're still riding that wave now, I think that currently we're in that evolutionary stage where commercial music is pushing more and more boundaries and spreading its wings a bit. Probably within the next ten years it will have peaked and then been replaced again, but who knows what could happen?

I sincerely doubt it, and contrary to you I don't see any signs of this happening. The problem is that music used to be an important topic in school, but today it has been degraded to a minor subject which (at least in Germany) can even be dropped completely once you reach tenth grade. And hardly any kids learn an instrument anymore.
Fortunately this problem has been spotted in North Rhine-Westphalia, the federal state of Germany I live in. There now is an initiative called "For every kid an instrument", whose goal is exactly that, and it has started pretty well. Let's hope it will show some results in the future.

Well to me there seems to be a musical cycle that has been going on, well, as long as there's been music, I suppose. It would appear that music starts off as a social sort of thing, something used to dance to, assist in telling stories or making statements, etc. However, after a while musician and listener both get bored of this, and start to crave something more. The music gradually grows in complexity and sophistication, with people experimenting and delighted fans lapping it up. However, many fans aren't very musical, and as a result have less developped ears than their musician counterparts. This usually means that music will reach a certain degree of complexity or experimentation that the fans are just alienated, they are no longer able to relate. As a result, there's a backlash against the deep stuff and music becomes a simple, social concept again.

You see this all over the place: Jazz started out as a way for people to get their groove on in clubs, but overtime it grew and grew and musicians pushed it as far as it would go. Of course, by a certain point most people lost interest with jazz because it had simply become too heady, but then a man named Elvis Presley comes in and suddenly you've got music you can dance to again. That music, in turn, would slowly grow and become increasingly complex until you've got the Beatles and the 70s Prog movement, which enjoys a good amount of success until, again, it just goes too far for most people and suddenly Punk is in demand. Punk slowly gives way to the virtuosity of metal, which in turn gets replaced by the grunge scene of the 90s. I think we're still riding that wave now, I think that currently we're in that evolutionary stage where commercial music is pushing more and more boundaries and spreading its wings a bit. Probably within the next ten years it will have peaked and then been replaced again, but who knows what could happen?

BaldFriede wrote: One should think twice before using the term "commercial". The so-called "commercial" music exists because record companies like to play it d´safe, so following the same old pattern for producing albums is what they do. And they create "trends" in music, the problem of which is that the differences between them are often close to nil. I personally believe record companies underestimate the listeners; the sales-drop of records has not only to do with them being available as pirated online-bootlegs, it certainly has to do with their cautiousness too. I am very certain kids would like to listen to other music than that commercial crap; the problem is they hardly ever get a chance these days, so they don't know anything else.

I think this is one of the best posts I've seen for a long time.

Friede is absolutely right. I despair at the sheer amount of dross which is force fed on mainstream tv and radio. There are very few outlets for anything else, and in that sense, the so called choice agenda of piles of tv & radio channels has absolutely led to LESS choice for consumers, not more.

Before the advent of satellite tv, there was actually a marvellous range of eclectic and diverse music on British television and radio. I speak, by the way, as a fan of modern technology.

P.S. Let's not forget:

Three cheers for Kante Manfila and Ali Farka Toure - superb musicians!