Gibson or Epiphone guitar??

mystic fred wrote: moe_blunts wrote: debrewguy wrote: The best comparison I've heard between the Epi & Gibson LP models is this "replace the PUs for $300, and you're 90% of the way to a Gibson". Do check out the various Epi models as they do also vary in price, just as the Gibson models do. i agree with this.  epiphone's stock pick ups are rather low quality, but the actual body and feel of the guitar might as well be the same as the gibson.  with gibson, you are paying for the name.  you should be able to find a decent epiphone lp and replace the pick ups for about 600-700, no problem.  i'm actually doing the very same thing, replacing the pickups with some seymour duncans. what kind of amp do you have?     the Epiphone is not  the same as a Gibson - different wood, different maker, different country, different animal, different everything! putting in SD's will make it sound 90% Epiphone....   brands that are "name" brands have earned those good names for  good reasons!

Are you sure ? Both share mahogany as the body's wood. The Gibson has a carved Maple top. The Epi has a Set mahogany neck, the Gibson - One-piece mahogany neck. The gibson has an ebony fretboard, the Epi, Rosewood. Both share the gold hardware,Tune-o-matic bridge with stopbar tailpiece,Body, neck and headstock binding. The Gibson has 490R and 498T humbuckers, the Epi - 2 Alnico Classic humbuckers.
Now there is no denying some difference in the craftmanship, but there is nothing that would create a chasm in sound quality (unstable tuning pegs, bad frets etc).
So, in a blind listening test, both guitars using the same PUPs , most would not hear a difference. There is one, for sure, or people wouldn't pay extra for the Gibson, and it wouldn't keep its' value as well. But the price is $3899 for the Gibson, and $799 for the Epi, (based on the listings at the moment on Musicians friend)
Factor in the upgraded PUPs, and if you don't care about its' collectability, you have a comparable guitar.
P.S. Collectibility does not automatically equal quality. 70s & early 80s Gibson Les Pauls were a hit & miss proposition. The good ones were great, the bad ones were terrible. They hadn't established the quality controls they now have. In comparison, same period Matsomuko brands like Vantage & Aria were well built and consistently good quality guitars, great actually if you know the the Aria Pro II line. Once they moved the production out of Japan, though, the quality came down, while Gibson's was going up.
So if you find an Aria, Aria Pro II, or Vantage made in Japan, you will be surprised by the excellent price to quality ratio. And as long as you don't have the ego need for "brand" names, you'll find yourself with a guitar that is every bit as good as anything made in America, apart from the high end Boutique or Custom made guitars.

Vompatti wrote: And also, is a Tokai Les Paul much better than an Epiphone one?

Most probably.

^ thanks for the info ... LTD/ESP don't mention the radius on their website, and I simply assumed from the rest of the specs that the radius would be higher ... 

In any case, I'd say that LTD/ESP offers a nice opportunity to get a guitar that looks like a vintage Gibson Les Paul but plays like a modern guitar. You can even get them with active pickups ...

One important thing to consider is the type of the neck/fretboard. If you get a Gibson/Epiphone you'll typically get a massive neck (quite thick) with a low radius, short scale and 22 medium frets. If you get an ESP/LTD you can also opt for a much more modern neck (thinner) with 24 (extra) jumbo frets and higher radius. That can make quite a difference, if you're into high speed licks. Ok, if you consider a Gibson/Epiphone you're probably not into shredding ... 

^ but Epiphone became famous for copying the Gibson Les Paul. In the 90s I was in a band, and the other guitarist played one of those cheap copies because he couldn't afford a real Gibson. Since then the qualities of the Epiphone guitars has greatly improved, and although I don't know first hand I would agree that getting a cheap Epiphone Les Paul and then improving the pickups could be a good strategy.

Another way to go would be LTD/ESP:

http://www.espguitars.com/guitars_ec.html

Definitely a much more modern guitar, but with the looks of a Les Paul.

Well, I just ordered a Variax 700 ... as soon as it arrives, I'll let you know how it sounds, especially the Les Paul models:

• 1958 Gibson® Les Paul® Standard
  
• 1952 Gibson® Les Paul® “Goldtop”
  
• 1961 Gibson® Les Paul® Custom (3 PU)
• 1956 Gibson® Les Paul® Junior
• 1955 Gibson® Les Paul® Special

I also think that it looks kind of nice, almost like a PRS:





Edited by Mr ProgFreak - November 29 2008 at 05:58

moe_blunts wrote: debrewguy wrote: The best comparison I've heard between the Epi & Gibson LP models is this "replace the PUs for $300, and you're 90% of the way to a Gibson". Do check out the various Epi models as they do also vary in price, just as the Gibson models do. i agree with this.  epiphone's stock pick ups are rather low quality, but the actual body and feel of the guitar might as well be the same as the gibson.  with gibson, you are paying for the name.  you should be able to find a decent epiphone lp and replace the pick ups for about 600-700, no problem.  i'm actually doing the very same thing, replacing the pickups with some seymour duncans. what kind of amp do you have?

I should mention $300 CAD. I've used a Peavey Studio Chorus 210 (good until you hear yourself play a real good amp), a Vox VR30R - a hybrid amp (Tube power amp), which I hated to have to sell to get my current one - Traynor YVC50. I also have a Roland Micro Cube. If you find one, buy it. Discontinued, but not because of quality issues. The lineout allows you to plug it into your own amp (for the effects and amp models) or a PA. And it sounds great by itself and loud for 2 watts.
I've played through a Peavey 50/410, which is a great value, if you can't afford a Fender Bassman. Both Vox & Line 6 have great amp modeling amps. I find these amps easier to work than the multieffect/amp modelers. Too often, the 120 page booklet gathers dust and I just end up using them for the effects instead of using stomp pedals. I had a Boss GT6, which I loved. Traded it for the YCV50. But I miss the GT6.

Get the Gibson.  Yep yer paying for the name.  I love my Gibson Les Paul Studio.  It's a rocker, 25 years later.  

debrewguy wrote: The best comparison I've heard between the Epi & Gibson LP models is this "replace the PUs for $300, and you're 90% of the way to a Gibson". Do check out the various Epi models as they do also vary in price, just as the Gibson models do.

i agree with this.  epiphone's stock pick ups are rather low quality, but the actual body and feel of the guitar might as well be the same as the gibson.  with gibson, you are paying for the name. 

you should be able to find a decent epiphone lp and replace the pick ups for about 600-700, no problem.  i'm actually doing the very same thing, replacing the pickups with some seymour duncans.

what kind of amp do you have?

i may not be as experienced as you Hughes in the world of wood and wire, but i speak as i find - i have also read from various sources about the string tension on SG's, the rake angle of the headstock may be a contributory factor, but on mine i even fitted 9's but it was still uncomfortable to play, and i sold it. the frets did seem higher, too, they were even dressed with plastic strips as was the edges of the fretboard.

Edited by mystic fred - November 28 2008 at 05:48