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Topic ClosedMetallica ?
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Poll Question: how do you fel about Metallica being added ?
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42 [28.77%]
29 [19.86%]
75 [51.37%]
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    Posted: November 08 2010 at 23:01
Can somebody please lock up this zombie?

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Points: 1584 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2010 at 18:19
I would say it's good, if only for the endless influence they have on progressive metal. Plus they do have some progressive moments.
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Points: 34550 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 19 2010 at 23:53
Originally posted by King By-Tor King By-Tor wrote:

Last option.


For the last 2 years I supported barely anything that this site has done.
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Points: 16111 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 19 2010 at 23:45
Last option.


For the last 2 years I supported barely anything that this site has done.
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Points: 527 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 19 2010 at 23:39
I feel like beating a dead horse so ... 

Metallica was a bad inclusion!

(what were they thinking!?!)




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Points: 403 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 28 2009 at 07:14
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

 ^ Metallica is in ProgRelated which means they were influenced by, or have a musical connection to, prog rock.  ProgRelated artists don't have to have been an influence on other bands, though in Metallica's case they certainly influenced many metal and Progmetal bands.




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Points: 65248 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2009 at 21:41
 ^ Metallica is in ProgRelated which means they were influenced by, or have a musical connection to, prog rock.  ProgRelated artists don't have to have been an influence on other bands, though in Metallica's case they certainly influenced many metal and Progmetal bands.
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Metallica is a great metal band but they have influenced some of the Progbands.Confused
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Points: 362 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 17 2009 at 06:40
I think it's a great inclusion.
 
To my ears, "Master of Puppets" and "...And justice for All", complex and dynamic as they are, are prog metal albums, and "Ride the Lightening" and "Death Magnetic" are certainly worthy of being considered proggy too. Besides, Metallica have doubtlessly been an inspiration to many prog metal bands around these days.
This user has left the PA fora, but will occasionally post reviews so as to support artists.
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Points: 7559 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 14 2009 at 16:42
Originally posted by angelmk angelmk wrote:

20 pages for Metallica are waist of time .. it is unnecessary .. IMO Metallica shouldnt be included in the PA, but who am i to jugde .. and Prog related is very questionable category..

Thank you for your contribution.

If you have a more sensible suggestion then please feel free to post here again.


Edited by Certif1ed - July 15 2009 at 02:17
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Points: 971 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 14 2009 at 16:29
Originally posted by debrewguy debrewguy wrote:

Do you wonder what Diamond Head could have sounded like with a better drummer ? 
 
Usually I'm not a big on Lars, but he really takes that song to a whole other level

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Points: 1955 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 14 2009 at 16:12
20 pages for Metallica are waist of time .. it is unnecessary .. IMO Metallica shouldnt be included in the PA, but who am i to jugde .. and Prog related is very questionable category..
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Points: 3596 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 14 2009 at 14:04
Do you wonder what Diamond Head could have sounded like with a better drummer ? 
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Points: 971 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 14 2009 at 13:35
Am I Evil??? Yes I am!!!

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Points: 3577 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 13 2009 at 14:20
Originally posted by Certif1ed <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Maiden's and Priest's first two albums were in the right sort of vein - pity neither continued like that!</DIV>[/QUOTE Certif1ed
 
Maiden's and Priest's first two albums were in the right sort of vein - pity neither continued like that!
[/QUOTE wrote:

 
Agree with you in this one i always though that the first two Maiden albums were ahead of his time.
 
Agree with you in this one i always though that the first two Maiden albums were ahead of his time.




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Points: 7559 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 12 2009 at 03:15
Exodus - Bonded by Blood
Exodus - Lessons in Violence (included on Speed Kills)
 
From Exodus' debut, released in 1985 - the music is very similar to that on Kill 'Em All - but the songs are dominated by one particular riff, which essentially remains unmodified. That said, the other riffs in the song are derivative of the main one - but there's not nearly as much variety as there is in Whiplash or Metal Militia (links posted above), both of which songs are called to mind. Even the solos sound a bit like Kirk's in "Whiplash".
 
In "Lessons in Vioence", the overarching style that Metallica forged on Kill 'Em All, with multi-part instrumental bridge can be easily heard - but "Bonded By Blood" as an album is much less sophisticated than "Ride The Lightning".
 
 
Watchtower - "Energetic Dissassembly"
Watchtower - "Asylum"
 
Break Watchtower's music down into its component sections and what you seem to have is a LOT of very complicated ideas.
 
This is not the same as complex - there is next to no complexity in the music, as everything follows or hinges off the main guitar. The vocal melody is non-existent, like the flow from idea to idea. "Asylum" has some twisted logic to it, but not so much "Energetic Dissassembly" - or much of the other music on the album, which is technical for the sake of being technical, on the whole.
 
It's not all like that, of course - there are some real flashes of inspiration, but that's the exception rather than the rule.
 
It's a good and innovative idea to produce technical sounding heavy metal, especially if you can pull off all of those techniques - but that's not what Prog is about. It's what metal is about - only rather than turning up the volume, increasing the speeed or citing classical music, these guys increased the amount of technical ability required to play the music.
 
Prog, in the sense Keith Emerson cites, isn't so much about having lots and lots of ideas, but more that you can take a group of ideas and "play" with them - which Metallica did. If you've ever tried to play anything Metallica wrote in their early days, you'll realise that it's technically fairly demanding too, because this was another of Metallica's remits!
 
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Points: 35750 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2009 at 19:43
Thanks!  That all sounds very reasonable to me, Cert.  Well explained, and I certainly find myself agreeing with you based on the all too little that I do know.

Incidentally, I should have said that "I've read that Watchtower.." since I'm not that familiar with the band's work.  I'm really quite ignorant about metal, save early bands (I have been exploring quite a few avant metal-oriented/ influenced bands over the last few years, though).  It just seemed very far-fetched to me that without Metallica prog metal probably would not exist.

Edited by Logan - July 11 2009 at 19:47
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Points: 7559 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2009 at 16:39
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Originally posted by progrocker2244 progrocker2244 wrote:

Without Metallica prog metal would probably NOT exist....


I'm no expert on metal, progressive or otherwise, but I would never have thought that.

Incidentally, I think Watchtower was making Prog Metal when Metallica was making more "Prog Related music". 
 
Watchtower certainly played some very technical metal - but I wouldn't call it Prog metal per se - the two are different things.
 
Watchtower also didn't release anything until 1985 - but, according to the Wikipedia article, Lars Ulrich was spotted wearing a Watchtower shirt around the time of "Justice..." - and the style of "Justice" is notably more technique oriented than "Master", so the connection is probably there.
 
Metallica were Prog related on their first album to my ears - and Watchtower basically wrote standard songs with lots of technical stuff. They didn't really do the "turn it upside down" thing as per Keith Emerson's quote defining Prog.
 
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Metallica certainly was very influential to prog metal, but then so were other metal bands such as Iron Maiden and Megadeath (and Exodus I would think).  And informed by early metal bands such as Black Sabbath.  How influential was Judas Priest?
 
I think Metallica played Prog Metal - and while it's taking it's time to sink in, no-one has actually proven me wrong.
 
I don't think Maiden, Megadeth or Exodus played it - although Maiden and Megadeth certainly brought some interesting things to the table. Metallica were very different - get hold of a copy of the first Speed Kills compliation, and the first Metal Massacre compilation and see how different they were at the time.
 
Sabbath and Priest influenced just about all heavy metal - there's almost no escaping them.
 
Influence is just one tiny part of it all.
 
Even Dream Theater acknowledge the importance of Metallica (and Maiden, who have been here a lot longer than Metallica) in their own music - it's not just simple influence, a trademark (like Iommi's tritones and drop tuning, or Priest's twin-barrel leads and fast riffing), it's a way of writing metal. Metallica brought something entirely new to the metal party, and everyone (Watchtower included) wanted a slice.
 
Exodus were almost there (back in 1982) - I'll give them that, but they soon fell into standard thrash, as far as I know.
 
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:


I just don't think that one could assume that is one band had not existed that there would be no progressive metal, and I'd say the same of progressive rock.  I'm sure there would be progressive rock bands that would experiment with metal, metal bands that would experiment with progressive rock (say hybridastions of classic Prog and heavy metal), and there would those metal innovators who expand the frontiers and lexicon of metal.
 
This is true, of course - and the whole scene was not about one band.
 
But one band became one of the biggest bands in the world, never mind THE biggest metal act ever - and also the band that got metal into non-metal fans living rooms. Back in 1988, most people seemed to avoid metal like the plague, except rabid metal fans - it was like Marmite.
 
Then, following Metallica's appearance on MTV, playing "One", metal was suddenly everywhere, even the most hated form of it - the dreaded Thrash Metal - it really kicked off in the early '90s, following the Black album.
 
Iron Maiden were the spearleaders of the NWoBHM, bringing metal to new heights of popularity, but Metallica brought it to previously unimaginable heights, and with music that, until the Black Album, was uncompromisingly Progressive in approach more than style.
 
Anyone can write a standard song with twiddly bits, if they sit down for months and learn the twiddly bits.
 
Not everyone can write a truly Progressive piece of rock music - that takes real art.
 
Maiden's and Priest's first two albums were in the right sort of vein - pity neither continued like that!
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Points: 3596 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2009 at 11:12
Well, I just commented in a PM I sent as to how this thread has actually become a great example of what our community can bring forth in a discussion.
Certif1ed & Transgressor really brought up the detailed debate points. This is much appreciated in contrast to "they are so / they are not" arguements too often found here. You had Progfreak join in with his own analysis.
Weve seen admin & other collabs join in. And in a grand show of side tracking that ends up still fitting in with the original thread - a bonanza of talk about other bands that influenced or were influenced Metallica, and also mentions of other bands that started out at the same time as Metallica.

Let the intelligent writerings go on Thumbs Up

NWOBHM - Tygers of Pan Tang - if they had managed to keep up the songwriting quality of Spellbound, they could have been a Deep Purple - Jon Deverill was that good a singer.
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Points: 35750 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2009 at 11:09
Originally posted by progrocker2244 progrocker2244 wrote:

Without Metallica prog metal would probably NOT exist....


I'm no expert on metal, progressive or otherwise, but I would never have thought that.

Incidentally, I think Watchtower was making Prog Metal when Metallica was making more "Prog Related music".  Metallica certainly was very influential to prog metal, but then so were other metal bands such as Iron Maiden and Megadeath (and Exodus I would think).  And informed by early metal bands such as Black Sabbath.  How influential was Judas Priest?

I just don't think that one could assume that is one band had not existed that there would be no progressive metal, and I'd say the same of progressive rock.  I'm sure there would be progressive rock bands that would experiment with metal, metal bands that would experiment with progressive rock (say hybridastions of classic Prog and heavy metal), and there would those metal innovators who expand the frontiers and lexicon of metal.
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