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Sean Trane View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Transferring Vinyl
    Posted: September 02 2005 at 07:57

I just hooked up my Phillips CD recorder to my stereo to duplicate the vinyls and it works correctly. I do not use special filters. I do have special digital cables when recording Cds, though , but for analog (Vinyls) recordings they are the good old quality cables I always had!

I am happy with the results and it does not fade away as taping vinyls on cassettes , however good the brand (Maxxell XL II-s) was my fave until I switched to Cd-Rs.

The sound difference is noticeable : on some compilations I make, there are Cd track and then Vinyl tracks and there are scratches and pops but who cares.... nothing shocking

I do not trust computers in transferring analog to digital or even digital to digital! Many copies of cd-Rs from friends have problems playing in most decks. I never have the problem as I use the Hi-fi option.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2005 at 03:48
You could always include a stand alone CD recorder in your hi-fi setup - personally, I use a Phillips CDR760 & have always had good results.

Sorry - not technical I know just my own humble opinion...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2005 at 07:06
Not all compression means a loss of sound though. Also you can fit more music on an audio CD than you can if you burn .wavs as data on it, I forget why now, although I believe it's something to do with error corrections.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2005 at 03:35
Thanks!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2005 at 21:58
Originally posted by Eetu Pellonpää Eetu Pellonpää wrote:

I can edit the waveform after that. I do this transcribing only when I wan't to do A compillation CD for my car. It's nicer to fade the beginnings and the endings of tracks from a concept album, where the music runs continuously from beginning to end. I also may amplify some of the tracks, to have more balanced volumelevel on the CD-R.

So wav is a compressed format also, with some data lost or altered from the original?



In this circumstance - carrying on regardless. Audio perfection is only for audiophile perfectionists anyway. We don't all have million dollar audio equipment that can show up these differences. The music will still sound great even if you convert an MP3 with a high sampling rate and burn it as a wav. The easiest way to think of wav is that if you copy a song from a CD onto your hard drive (just a straight folder to folder copy - no media application involved) it will get a wav extension so that windows knows it is an audio file. No compression in a wav, but may have lost bits as pointed out- not too sure on this though (don't know enough about how the ISO works compared to hard drive allocation). The no compression can be easily demonstrated by copying an MP3 to audio on a CD- the 3MB MP3 will be blown out to 30MB audio file


Edited by cobb
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2005 at 12:36
Originally posted by goose goose wrote:

It is a digital copy, but it misses about 200 samples from the beginning and end of the CD. When there are 44,100 samples a second that's not a very big deal, but it's still not perfect. Converting to .wav isn't rerecording the sound at all, it retains all the data and just represents it in a different way - it's just as perfect as a CD copy, assuming all the data has been ripped correctly in the first place.
 
It's not?  Hip!
 
When I examine the waveforms I have ripped (with 44,100), I sometimes have noticed a microscopic gap at the beginning and the end of the track. That's annoying, 'cause one can hear it very clearly when a track changes, in a serie of tracks with continuing music. I also correct those manually with Cool Edit Pro.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2005 at 12:31

Originally posted by cobb cobb wrote:

The only way to get an exact copy is to perform a CD copy. Why do you copy them as wav's to your hard drive when roxio will do a cd to cd copy?

I can edit the waveform after that. I do this transcribing only when I wan't to do A compillation CD for my car. It's nicer to fade the beginnings and the endings of tracks from a concept album, where the music runs continuously from beginning to end. I also may amplify some of the tracks, to have more balanced volumelevel on the CD-R.

So wav is a compressed format also, with some data lost or altered from the original?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2005 at 10:38
Originally posted by cobb cobb wrote:


Originally posted by oliverstoned oliverstoned wrote:

This is a great mistake to convert analog vynil sound into numeric.
The better is to record your vynil on a good cassette deck, like a Nakamichi 1000zxl(the best in the world)for example...
Moreover, all that passes through a computer is rotten!
<span style="font-weight: bold;">Compare an original Cd to the duplicated one, burnt on a computer and you will understand,</span> if you listen it on A REAL GOOD TRANSPARENT SYTEM.


This is a physical impossibility. CD duplication invloves transferring
0 and 1s from one cd to another. If it messes this up, the duplication
is in error. Digital music is just a series of binary code that is
translated into sound by the sound card. You can't get any loss of
signal- the duplication is the same as the original


This is much more complex. Anyway, we have already discuss this.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2005 at 10:30

Originally posted by oliverstoned oliverstoned wrote:

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Jolida 302




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2005 at 10:09
It is a digital copy, but it misses about 200 samples from the beginning and end of the CD. When there are 44,100 samples a second that's not a very big deal, but it's still not perfect. Converting to .wav isn't rerecording the sound at all, it retains all the data and just represents it in a different way - it's just as perfect as a CD copy, assuming all the data has been ripped correctly in the first place.
 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2005 at 07:02
No you are talking about ripping....

Ripping involves running the original music through an algorithm and essentially re-recording it. This will only be as good as the hardware and software that you are using. Making a CD copy is just making a digital copy of the data on the ISO- it is exactly them same, a perfect clone.

If I'm wrong on this, I'm sure someone will tell me.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2005 at 06:56
You can't get a perfect copy of an audio CD with most programs because they (edit: don't) allow for offsets. As far as I know there are only two ripping programs that do - Exact Audio Copy and Plextools, although I think there may be more.

Edited by goose
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2005 at 05:28
The only way to get an exact copy is to perform a CD copy. Why do you copy them as wav's to your hard drive when roxio will do a cd to cd copy?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2005 at 04:46

Quote  CD duplication invloves transferring 0 and 1s from one cd to another. If it messes this up, the duplication is in error. Digital music is just a series of binary code that is translated into sound by the sound card. You can't get any loss of signal- the duplication is the same as the original.

Do you know, does the quality of windows wav-files match with the digital files in factory produced CD's?  I mean, that there isn't anykind of compression in wavs?

In pratice: If i rip a CD, which I have bought from a store, to a wav file f.ex. with Easy CD Creator, and I choose highest quality values for it, is the transcription 1 to 1? 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2005 at 03:30
Originally posted by oliverstoned oliverstoned wrote:

This is a great mistake to convert analog vynil sound into numeric.
The better is to record your vynil on a good cassette deck, like a Nakamichi 1000zxl(the best in the world)for example...
Moreover, all that passes through a computer is rotten!
Compare an original Cd to the duplicated one, burnt on a computer and you will understand, if you listen it on A REAL GOOD TRANSPARENT SYTEM.


This is a physical impossibility. CD duplication invloves transferring 0 and 1s from one cd to another. If it messes this up, the duplication is in error. Digital music is just a series of binary code that is translated into sound by the sound card. You can't get any loss of signal- the duplication is the same as the original
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 31 2005 at 14:58
Here's my power amp.
Highly recommended, the best price/value of the whole market


Jolida 302




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 31 2005 at 11:22

Wow, that's a nice player! I'll manage atleast now with LG DVX8651, as I can play my CD's and DVD's with the same machine. It supports also mpg's and divx, and it was a real lowbudget thing, about 70€.

Thanks for nice brainstroming!

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 31 2005 at 09:52
"But there's some nice aspects of digitalization, like this forum and this discussion we're having!"

Agree! but in the sound field, unfortunatly it's catastrophic compare to analog.

"I would be interested in concrete details, how much better are the digital formats that music industry use, than the wave files used by common computer users, and in what way these sounds differ. How can the differences be heard?"

I've not the technical/scientific knowledge to tell you in detail (that's very complex), but the simple thing is that MP3 and others are much more compressed than classic CD, which results in a great loss of data. This results in a very bad sound on all criterias. In the audio industry, they compress dynamic unfortunatly but when you buy an original CD, it has nothing to do with a mp3 or even a computer-burned cd, but that's another issue. But to hear this differences, you need to have a real good system.


"But we're living in digital world, and I'll try to seek ways of bringing some analog content I like to some of the digitalized enviroments I'll have to be in"

Yes, that's sad but fortunatly there's enough stock of analog vynils to enjoy analog sounds during a long time!

But we are in a digital world like you said, that's why i bought myself a great CD player (Sonic frontiers SFT-1 drive + Goldmund Mimesis 14 converter+ Nordost digital cable).


Sonic frontiers SFT-1 (on the upper)




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 31 2005 at 08:33
Originally posted by oliverstoned oliverstoned wrote:

Akai GX-95 is not too bad on a technical point, so you should use it instead of Mp3. That would be an interesting experiment for you. But it also depends on which turntable/cartridge you use.

I have Technics SL-DL1 turntable. I used to do some taping during early 90's, as my parent's car had a casette recorder. From that machine it ofcourse impossible to hear any good sound. At home I listen from a casette only those LP's I have copied from local library (not too many of them). Mainly I listen only the vinyls themselves, and not any kind of copy from them.

I don't have any mp3 on my computer or CD for listening. I also use the vinyl transcriptions only in my car, or I make a backup copy for myself of the LP's I fear I might not be able to get anymore, should they be destroyed. I also did some "party CD's" to ruin parties where I was invited, but I'm not invited to them anymore.

Originally posted by oliverstoned oliverstoned wrote:

I'm not sure understanding well your question about formats being used by audio industry.

OK, it's a bit complex for me to bring my thoughts about this in english, but I'll try.

If one transfers an analog information to a digital information, then more denser the resolution of the binaries representing the soundwave should be, that closer of the original source should be the result, no? I would be interested in concrete details, how much better are the digital formats that music industry use, than the wave files used by common computer users, and in what way these sounds differ. How can the differences be heard? Me, with my bit deaf hearing, can probably be satisfied with much rougher sound than majority of the people.

I respect and like analog technology and products done with it much more than of digital techology. But we're living in digital world, and I'll try to seek ways of bringing some analog content I like to some of the digitalized enviroments I'll have to be in. The opinnions of imitating alive sound with a computer could be taken to a level, where one can state that technology of any kind cannot bring the hoped result: real analog sound. It's allways plain binaries. The whole lifetime of the universe isn't enough for any kind of computer of any technology, to calculate and represent the fysiological phenomenons in quantum scale, which make the sounds appear to our world.

Ouch, I think my braincapacity is running out...

But there's some nice aspects of digitalization, like this forum and this discussion we're having!

 

Ops, what a mess my post was!



Edited by Eetu Pellonpää
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 31 2005 at 05:36
Originally posted by Eetu Pellonpää Eetu Pellonpää wrote:

Originally posted by oliverstoned oliverstoned wrote:

Btw, happy you enjoy this discussion


Sure! I'm anything but pro in this subject, but it interests me. Different opinnions make the discusson, and my (too) big ego seldom get's harmed.


I have Akai GX-95 tapedeck, but I use it nowadays only for recording the music of the garage psych band I have with my friends. We're having two gigs today, and I just packed it to the car. I don't have very much different uses for casettes, as there's not MC player in my car, nor do I have walkman.


I agree with your opinnion about mp3's, I don't use them exept of listening some music samples from the progarchives. But do you (or anybody else here) know, what kind of formats do the music industry use? How much more denser they are than wav? I can enjoy transcriptions I have done in a way desribed before, but I have also guite bad hearing, so I quess I don't get all the details of the sound. But I enjoy analog sound more than digital, that's for sure.


I'll have to leave before I get late from the sets!



Akai GX-95 is not too bad on a technical point, so you should use it instead of Mp3. That would be an interesting experiment for you. But it also depends on which turntable/cartridge you use.

I'm not sure understanding well your question about formats being used by audio industry.
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