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pianomandust
Forum Groupie
Joined: May 10 2007
Location: United States
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Topic: Will pop music become prog? Posted: December 08 2008 at 13:17 |
I was thinking to myself today that I really enjoy a lot of styles of music. Jazz, classical, various forms of prog, etc. I find something to enjoy in just about every sub-genre of prog (recognized by P.A.). That is also what worries me - I hope that in my seemingly never-ending search for new styles and forms of music, pop music (what I don't really listen to at all) will become prog to me at some point. It's inevitable, right? It will sound the freshest to my ears because everything else I listen to doesn't sound like pop music.
Scary thought, and semi-sarcastic, but crap....that would be awful.
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and then there was music...
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Epignosis
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 13:49 |
No.
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Slartibartfast
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 14:06 |
Sometimes people see solid walls between the various genres when in fact they are often permeable. Pop music as you may or may not know it today can be rather stagnant without picking up influences from other places. And pop elements do creep into prog and prog artists try and go pop too often to our chagrin.
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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The Pessimist
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 13 2007
Location: United Kingdom
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Points: 3834
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 15:10 |
Pop music is POPULAR music. One of the main indirect attributesof prog is that it isn't what people would call popular. So I doubt it somehow, by definition.
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"Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value."
Arnold Schoenberg
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DavetheSlave
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Joined: May 23 2007
Location: South Africa
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 15:21 |
Pop music - prog? God forbid that should ever happen! Unless there were a mainstream change and suddenly prog became the rage. Never gonna happen as the teenybopper crowd that Simon Cowell exploits so happily will never take to anything other than "I kissed a girl and I liked it" kind of Twak.
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jplanet
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 15:25 |
How quickly some forget, or are too young to remember - Back in the 70's when ELP was the top-grossing concert act in the world, and Yes was selling out several consecutive nights at Madison Square Garden, and Dark Side of the Moon was earning the sales that made it the best-selling album of all time, prog rock was certainly one of the most successful genres of pop music.
Now that the internet will ring the death knell of all major record labels and radio stations, my guess is that prog, along with dozens of other genres that are overlooked by the corporate music business, will end up on an equal playing field together. Sadly, it will probably never be as big as it was in the 70's when prog was king.
But, i digress. The original post wasn't about whether prog would become popular, but rather if pop music would sound so unfamiliar that it would seem like something truly innovative. Once prog starts sounding too familiar to you, you will probably do what Peter Gabriel did, and start listening to world music...
Edited by jplanet - December 08 2008 at 15:28
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Philéas
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 15:27 |
Slartibartfast hit the nail on the head.
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harrold the barrel
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Joined: February 08 2008
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 15:37 |
jplanet wrote:
Now that the internet will ring the death knell of all major record labels and radio stations, my guess is that prog, along with dozens of other genres that are overlooked by the corporate music business, will end up on an equal playing field together. Sadly, it will probably never be as big as it was in the 70's when prog was king.
that is exactly what I've been saying for the last year or so, nicely done sir!
But, i digress. The original post wasn't about whether prog would become popular, but rather if pop music would sound so unfamiliar that it would seem like something truly innovative. Once prog starts sounding too familiar to you, you will probably do what Peter Gabriel did, and start listening to world music...
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Either that or step further back into the formation of prog with the styles of jazz,blues,classical or anything for that matter.
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Avantgardehead
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Joined: December 29 2006
Location: Dublin, OH, USA
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Points: 1170
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 15:37 |
Hopefully, yes.
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http://www.last.fm/user/Avantgardian
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fuxi
Prog Reviewer
Joined: March 08 2006
Location: United Kingdom
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Points: 2459
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 16:05 |
I don't know if pop will become prog, but prog bands have often tried to become pop, even WHILE WHILE REMAINING PROG, and in many cases they've succeeded beautifully. Just think of "I know what I like", "Wonderous Stories", "Lucky Man" etc.: poppy gems from great bands in their proggy heyday! And don't even get me started on Porcupine Tree or them Flour Kingz.
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Henry Plainview
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 16:53 |
Does this thread mark the expansion of our elitism to new and interesting heights?
What if I listen to so much good music that my ears break and I don't even realize it? How will I know how to look down on? This is serious, people. In five years you could be listening to Nickelback!
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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topofsm
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Joined: August 17 2008
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 17:13 |
I think prog and pop have a lot more similarities than quite a few other genres paired with prog. After all, there are plenty of rather Yes and Genesis songs that had plenty of catchy sing-along type melodies, but were also definetely progressive. I dare you say a song like Roundabout isn't catchy or progressive in the least.
And The Beatles were for sure pop, but were completely inventive too, they certainly pushed the boundaries of what could be called pop music then, and there's quite a few people who think of them as prog (I'm not saying I do though).
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cobb2
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 25 2007
Location: Australia
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Points: 415
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 17:38 |
Some releases of prog music have also been popular music- How many copies of dark side of the moon have been sold? If this isn't popular music.... It's up there with the Eagles and Michael Jackson. Yes were also the golden boys of the music rags such as rolling stone for a time- this is pre the term progressive music. I suppose Dream Theater could also be termed a popular band. Has anybody seen the amount of people who turned up for the Genesis When in Rome DVD- that's a fairly good indication of a popular band. As a off-side I do remember pointing out to some year 12 students back when Metallica were in their prime that because they were charting all the time on the pop charts that they were, by definition, a pop band- now that didn't go over well.
Edited by cobb2 - December 08 2008 at 17:42
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Dean
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Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 17:53 |
Yes it will. It's called New Prog.
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What?
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Atavachron
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 17:58 |
^ I hate that
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 18:04 |
cobb2 wrote:
Some releases of prog music have also been popular music- How many copies of dark side of the moon have been sold? If this isn't popular music, It's up there with the Eagles and Michael Jackson.
Popular doesn't mean pop:
Pop Vs. Popular Music
It is tempting to confuse pop music with popular music. The New Grove Dictionary Of Music and Musicians, the musicologist's ultimate reference resource, identifies popular music as the music since industrialization in the 1800's that is most in line with the tastes and interests of the urban middle class. This would include an extremely wide range of music from vaudeville and minstrel shows to heavy metal. Pop music, on the other hand, has primarily come into usage to describe music that evolved out of the rock 'n roll revolution of the mid-1950's and continues in a definable path to today.
Pop Music and Song Structure
One of the most consistent elements of pop music since the 1950's is the pop song. Pop music is not usually written, performed and recorded as a symphony, suite, or concerto. The basic form for pop music is the song and usually a song consisting of verse and repeated chorus. Most often the songs are between 2 1/2 minutes and 5 1/2 minutes in length. There have been notable exceptions. The Beatles' "Hey Jude" was an epic 7 minutes in length. However, in many cases, if the song is abnormally long, an edited version is released for radio airplay such as in the case of Don McLean's "American Pie." It was edited down from its original 8 1/2 minutes length to just over 4 minutes for radio airplay. On the other end of the spectrum, in the late 1950's and early 1960's some hit songs clocked in under 2 minutes in length.
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Doesn't matter how many copies did DSOTM sold, it may be popular, but it's not POP. The main structure ofa Pop song normalñly has an ABAB structure (Chorus, verse, chorus, verse abd repeat ad nauseam), Prog has changes, bridges, introduction coda, etc.
Yes were also the golden boys of the music rags such as rolling stone for a time- this is pre the term progressive music. I suppose Dream Theater could also be termed a popular band. Has anybody seen the amount of people who turned up for the Genesis When in Rome DVD- that's a fairly good indication of a popular band. As a off-side I do remember pointing out to some year 12 students back when Metallica were in their prime that because they were charting all the time on the pop charts that they were, by definition, a pop band- now that didn't go over well.
A Prog band may hit the POP charts, because the guys from the Grammys lump Prog under the Pop Rock moniker or as they want, as a fact A Crest of a Knave by Jethro Tull won a Grammy as the best Heavy Metal album and that's stupid.
Iván
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jplanet
Forum Senior Member
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Joined: August 30 2006
Location: NJ
Status: Offline
Points: 799
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 18:19 |
Wow, in a thread having nothing to do with Neo- or New- Prog, it only took about 8 posts before those subgenre's were insulted twice!
Nice work, guys! Keep it up and you'll continue to alienate huge portions of this forum's members! Merry Christmas!
Q: How many PA members does it take to screw in a light bulb? A: Three. One to screw in the light bulb, and two to say that Neo Prog sucks!
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micky
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 18:22 |
jplanet wrote:
Wow, in a thread having nothing to do with Neo- or New- Prog, it only took about 8 posts before those subgenre's were insulted twice!
Nice work, guys! Keep it up and you'll continue to alienate huge portions of this forum's members! Merry Christmas!
Q: How many PA members does it take to screw in a light bulb? A: Three. One to screw in the light bulb, and two to say that Neo Prog sucks!
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hahhahhaha
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
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Points: 37575
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 18:23 |
John, New Prog isn't Neo Prog - they are two different things. New Prog are alt/indie bands with Prog influences, such as The Doves, The Mew, Coldplay and Elbow
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What?
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jplanet
Forum Senior Member
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Joined: August 30 2006
Location: NJ
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 18:30 |
Dean wrote:
John, New Prog isn't Neo Prog - they are two different things. New Prog are alt/indie bands with Prog influences, such as The Doves, The Mew, Coldplay and Elbow |
With apologies to you, I say (with apologies to the late Gilda Radner): nevermind! Yeah, New Prog is awful. I say it's open season, insult away! But I'm saving my lightbulb joke for the next thread insulting Neo. That's a good one. I won't have to wait long!
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