Live Prog-rock is Dying

darqDean wrote: p0mt3 wrote: The next ''Dream Theater"? I think I'll pass . . . Irrelevant.   p0mt3 wrote:   Okay, so what you are saying is that the fans of indie prog acts of today need to do more to support their favorite group. Well, I can't speak for anyone else here, but if someone REALLY cares about a band to begin with, they are gonna pay for the CD, not download it, and they are going to go to gigs when teh bands comes their way. Catch 22 - how do you get people to hear your music in the first place? How did you get to hear of your favourite modern band? How did they become "famous" enough for you to hear their music? Were you at their early gigs before they were signed? Did you follow them when they were 3rd on the bill in a dingy club, played for 30 minutes and didn't get paid?   No. You heard about them in the music press or through the internet, then got curious and bought their CD. But for them to get that far, some other people did all those other things.   p0mt3 wrote:   If someone who is listening to my band's music doesn't like us enough to go the extra mile, and has to be told to do so by somebody on a forum, then I don't think I want their support anyway. Does your band suddenly appear on the scene fully-formed and with a substantial following? No, the only artists that magically appear with an instant following are the manufactured boy-bands and Pop Idol wannabies - you don't - you have to build-up a following by self promotion and hard work - contrary to popular belief it's not all record company hype, payola and PR magic. Without that the A&R people won't even know you exist - you can send out a million demo CDs and you'll get a million rejects because unless your 'product' is the most amazing thing since the digital watch they only sign bands they have heard of.   As I said, the Internet will only get you so far - you still have to put in the hard work to get noticed. All those "feel-good" stories you read of artists being discovered on MySpace are PR hype and yet another form of industry manufacturing - I'll wager most of those artists had signed contracts before their MySpace page was produced and all the other 100,000 bands on MySpace are shooting at thin air.   p0mt3 wrote:   Real fans are what keep bands going, and no matter how few or how many of them there may be, they are the ones that matter. I understand about the whole making money thing, but frankly if the artists wanted to make money they should have signed to a major record deal and stuck their fingers up at artistic expression. I think anyone who plays original music knows what they are in for before they even begin the touring phase of their band's career. Have you even the slightest idea of how difficult it is to get signed to any record label, let alone a major? The only reason bands self-release albums, (ie indie release, it's basically the same thing - the majority of indie labels are one-act wonders originally set up to promote one band), is because they cannot get a major deal - it has nothing to do with artistic expression or integrity - that is just a smoke screen.   p0mt3 wrote: Then again, I may be misreading you. probably   p0mt3 wrote: After all, it's always nice to get money for doing what you love, but if it were me, I would be perfectly content to just make enough to live on so I could keep making music. Anything extra that would ever lead to luxouries would simply be icing on the cake. It's nothing to do with making money or even earning enough from music to get by, very very few of today's Prog bands earn enough money to live on - Mac from Threshold quit the business last year because he could earn a living from it. Truth is, most bands do it for the love of music.

p0mt3 wrote:   Serioisely, though, I can see why the guy got a little pissed. People don't take too kindly to threads being hijaked around these parts. If a thread happens to gradually shift topics, that's one thing, but I suggest the "just for fun" section from now on if you wanna post funny pictures. Hell, I'll even come and contribute some of my own! Just . . . y'know, not in the middle of a completely different discussion, lol.

Atkingani wrote: OK, let's keep this BLOG "On TOPIC"... The Just For Fun forum exists especially for the subject it was created.   Thanks!

suggestions  will be considered


Edited by CCVP - March 24 2008 at 19:37

Wow, what a first post!

Edited by p0mt3 - March 24 2008 at 20:20

I wasn't gonna say anything, but I agree about Morse. I mean, I myself am of the Christian faith, but hell, once we have heard how much yuo love Jesus, we kinda want to hear about y'know . . . something a little more lyrically interesting . . .

^ yes, but you've gone off topic again - this isn't a chat room.

darqDean wrote: ^ yes, but you've gone off topic again - this isn't a chat room.

Very well, allow me to remake my posts: Spock's Beard got a HUGE quality downfall with its main composer departure, Neal Morse to preach the love of God because of the healing of his son. Because of Neal's departure i think Spock's Beard is half-dead.

Besides that, Neal's music on his solo career is great, and may be considered as the continuation of Spock's Beard continuation, as long as music concerns, but the lyrics are not pleasant to me for a bunch of reasons and, one of them is the incompatibility with my personal beliefs.

Maybe one of the reasons of lesser durability of prog nowadays and its "death" is the "death" of the bands. The offspring of that is usually lower quality bands that can only exist due to their previous success on the previous band. To me the main example of that is Marillion: after fish's departure, neither fish not Marillion where able to reach the same quality that they once had.


Edited by CCVP - March 24 2008 at 21:33

Thanks guys, glad to be here. You'll no doubt eventually get sick of me though...I say what I mean, and usually, mean what I say....so enough of that, on with the show....

I really think that the internet is a double edge sword in that it does provide bands with heaps of outlets for them to flog their music, their image, their voice. And at the same time, it opens doors for them and can lead to huge audiences hearing about them, and hearing what they have to offer. This is a fantastic medium for such things - but the edge of the sword comes about when people download - or put another way - steal.

Now don't get me wrong, I am not about to stand up on my soapbox and point my finger at any of you here - or anyone - I admit it. I download music. And like others have said above, if its good, I will go out and buy a legit copy for my collection. This is a great thing to do - because it shows that it is not good enough to just have a copy of the music on the ipod, but in fact, it is important to have the original disc - to give support to the artists. But more and more this is becomming an exception to the rule. Most people download it, listen to it, throw it on the ipod, and then go and download something else, repeat. I would daresay the closest these songs ever come to be on disc is when they get burned and passed around to friends, and so on and so on.

Some would argue that this in itself is one of the main reasons why the music industry is in strife - and I couldn't argue against it.

The main problem is that as an artist gets known - ie, passed around from friend to friend, the only good thing that can happen from that point is - that hopefully they get good tour support. Album sales have suffered, so radio tours, tv slots don't exist - or are on a shoestring budget, because no money is coming in. It is very rare that record labels are willing to throw millions of dollars at bands anymore for publicity - simply because they know that the returns aren't there.

Back in the 70s, 80s, 90s - and up until the very late 90s, the writing was on the wall - but I don't think anyone could have predicted just how destructive a simple little file extension was going to be to the music industry - .mp3

Now days, of course, the term .mp3 is a household name. Take stock of other file extension names and ask yourself - how many are household names? Sure, techies and the like can rattle off more than we'd like to know - but just how many does grampa jones know of down the street? I would almost guarantee if you said, hey gramps - ever heard of an .mp3 - he would nod his head.

So, where does that leave us? It puts artists in a situation where on one hand they need the internet for the publicity, they they authorize,  but on the other hand they don't need their music pawned off like it was dirt - and was free for anyone to come along and take a scoop, or worse, fill their wheel-barrow up. And that is exactly what is happening.

I'm not saying that the internet is bad - its a fabulous tool - but like anything good it can be abused. The problem is how can bands use the net and not fall prey to illegal downloading of their music? I honestly don't think that answer exists yet. Sueing fans isn't the answer - but it may help curb it to some extent. But if you are honestly one of those fans who downloads your music, listens, then decides if he likes it or not. If he doesn't - does he delete it? Or does he have an obligation whether he likes it or not to go out and buy it?

That is a can of worms in itself. All this relates back to whether or not Prog-rock is dying - because the prog that we love is suffering from this, although, as stated, I don't believe it is dying. It's just not as healthy as it once was.

What part can we play?  How can we listen to the music, before we buy it? And should we be allowed to do just that? You can test drive a car before you buy it. If you don't like it - no sweat - move on and test drive until you find one you like. It's a good system - one with we all agree upon.

But you can't order a pizza, eat it, and then say, no, I don't like this, make me another - and not pay for it. It just doesn't work that way. I think we need to understand how important the music is that we choose to listen to - regardless of how we get it. And if you get it from an internet site where paying isn't an option,  perhaps you need to rethink just what it is that went into making that product. More and more often kids think that music "grows on trees". It's just there to be picked, ripe or not, whenever they choose. This "on demand" system that we live in has a hefty price - and one of those is our artists have paid with their creativity being sold for nothing. I honeslty think that this is a mentality that we need to teach kids in school. It's not enough for them to be told that illegal downloading is wrong - we have to teach it to them. Show them the consequences - on both sides of the coin. From the consumers perspective, where ticket, and merchandise prices are going through the roof to compensate, and from the artists perspective - where dreams are shattered, and dues are paid almost in blood - for a few dollars more.

Yeah, I can rant.....

The record industry (like the film industry) suffers, in my point of view, because they keep shelling out crap on the public, and while many people accept it as 'music' those of us who are wiser to it don't always live in an area where good music is plentiful. I know that I live nowhere near any frecord store that keeps classic Genesis material in stock, and to me that is a shame, but at the same time, folks don't want to pay close to twenty bucks (sometimes more) for something that they may or may not like, especially with all the horrible sub-par music that is being released. The internet is only a small part of what is causing these big industries to fail, in my honest opinion. The rest of it is their own doing.

Edited by darqDean - March 25 2008 at 12:04

I know what you are thinking -