The boring "Rewriting Classics" administration pit |
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JD
Forum Senior Member Joined: February 07 2009 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 18446 |
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Not sure what you mean by REASONING? Why does a question need a reason, the reason is...I don't know the answer. You might also want to mention... The InsproBot creates inspirational posters II The First Prog Lyric Part That Pops Into Your MindThe Counting Thread The Cover Chain game!! Anytime someone quote someone else in a post Just to name a few more examples that also fall within the whole copyright discussion. Edited by JD - August 13 2021 at 14:54 |
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suitkees
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 19 2020 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 9050 |
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Legally speaking it is all quite simple (and not that different in
Europe, the USA or Canada...): The reproduction of copyrighted content
should be done with the permission of the copyright holders, otherwise
it could be considered a copyright infringement. I doubt that
all the embedded videos, reproduced lyrics, photos, album covers, etc.
etc. here on PA (site and forum) have that permission... Now,
what to do about that? Nothing, in my opinion. But that is actually a
question the site owner(s) should answer and act eventually accordingly.
We are in what I call the "grey zone" or the "tolerance zone" for which
much lobbying is going on to regulate it better ("Fair use" is an
example of that). For the moment it mostly relies on the tolerance of
copyright holders if they allow things to be used in a way that is not
competing with their own exploitation of their work. What
we are doing here on the PA forums has no commercial intent when we
embed a video, reproduce a lyric, etc. so the worst thing that could
happen, I think, is that the site owner receives a nice letter from a
lawyer that will ask that this or that work should be removed from the
site, "or else"... We remove it and that's it. Or we make it a case and
defend our "fair use" of that material and a judge might agree with us,
or not... That would be a strategy if the site owner likes to go to
tribunals. I guess he doesn't, so the most simple thing to do is remove
the content in question and go on with our everyday PA life. Of
course, it is good that PA reminds its users now and then that they use
copyrighted material and should not make abuse of it (e.g. embed a
whole album, all the lyrics of a band, etc.), but let's continue the way
we are doing things here and when there's a letter from a lawyer, we
act accordingly. That's all.
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The razamataz is a pain in the bum |
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Tapfret
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 12 2007 Location: Bryant, Wa Status: Offline Points: 8581 |
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There has been a very clear warning about copyrighted material in the site rules and guidelines since 2008.
I have participated in the "rewriting" threads and they are pretty entertaining. Apparently I have not paid close enough attention to notice that full lyrics were being posted. Posting copyrighted song lyrics is a violation of site policy. Please avoid doing that in the future and make sure any existing original lyrics are removed.. Don't let this kill a fun thread. Edited by Tapfret - August 13 2021 at 22:35 |
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suitkees
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 19 2020 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 9050 |
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^ It's fine with me (as I said earlier: "unless/until admins tell us to act differently."), but I think it is a bit double standard regarding allowing video embeds but not lyrics... (which is of course not at all a plea to stop these too!). Yesterday I already deleted the lyrics I posted in the threads I started and hope that everyone who has posted original lyrics before will do the same. We can link to an existing lyrics page instead at the start of each new #, so we continue to have the same reference without being bad boys (and girls?)...
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The razamataz is a pain in the bum |
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Heart of the Matter
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 01 2020 Location: Argentina Status: Offline Points: 3124 |
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I don't see a problem with posting a link to the lyrics site. In order to keep up with the line number, a counter can be posted and updated in the OP.
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TCat
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: February 07 2010 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 11612 |
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I already suggested posting a small section of the lyrics at a time until they are "re-imagined" or even posting a link to the lyrics where they are being used legally. It wouldn't be that hard to do this.
Also, here is an article I found that will answer a lot of questions about the concerns of posting/sharing lyrics online. Here’s what you need to know about sharing lyrics online | The FADER As far as the embedding of videos, I will look into that, but since it is linked to YouTube, I'm not sure if it's a problem. I will see what I can find out.
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suitkees
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 19 2020 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 9050 |
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Apparently, at least in Europe, embedding is not a copyright infringement. See here:
And here a 22 page pdf that compares the EU legislation with those in the US of A (I haven't read it yet...). So, we can be relieved regarding the embedded videos...!
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TCat
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: February 07 2010 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 11612 |
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Thanks Kees. Glad to see an actual document on the subject and I'm thrilled that you took the time to research this. I'll be reading that pdf that you posted, but from what I have understood, it's what I suspected: the embedded video thing isn't an infringement, but don't take that as gospel yet....
Quoting from that document: Hyperlinks have been described as the “digital equivalent
of giving the recipient driving directions to another website on the Internet”. [footnote removed, see article] The
hyperlink itself does not contain the copyrighted or protected derivative work. [footnote removed, see article] Edited by TCat - August 14 2021 at 19:00 |
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suitkees
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 19 2020 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 9050 |
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The razamataz is a pain in the bum |
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suitkees
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Kate has reached her heights although some input was deerly missing (come back JD, come back! ). Someone volunteering for #26?
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The razamataz is a pain in the bum |
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 11 2007 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 10652 |
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Personally I think picking on annoying tacky songs (Sledgehammer, Hallelujah) works better for me than picking on good songs, but thats just me. Sorry I missed Rocky Mountain Way, that one's pretty tacky too.
What do others think? |
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Heart of the Matter
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 01 2020 Location: Argentina Status: Offline Points: 3124 |
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What about The Sphinx In The Face, by Van Der Graaf? It's got a rhythm and a rhyming that stick with you from the beginning, and yet it's a reasonably good song.
BTW, I miss JD too, not the same without him. |
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JD
Forum Senior Member Joined: February 07 2009 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 18446 |
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Sorry for bowing out on the KB. I was throwing a tantrum about not posting the lyrics. I will most likely avoid any that don't include the lyrics in the OP going forward. Plus, this morning I got hired on as the Project Manager for a green field plant build and they have to be out of their current location by Jan 2023. I have no idea how I'm going to pull that off given that they still haven't closed on the purchase of the new build site and there are huge delays in getting building materials right now, especially little things like steel for roofing. I may be jumping in and out from time to time and will try and contribute. I feel the love. Thanks. |
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suitkees
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 19 2020 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 9050 |
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^ Remember, the first dozen or so were done without the lyrics in the OP... I admit, it is more convenient with them, but a link does the job for me... It won't avoid some glitches from time to time, but that's part of the charm, I think. Good to hear you have a big project at hand, if still not entirely solid... Something precious these times when one is working on project base (like I do, outside of my teaching things). Anyway, jump in when you can/want! |
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suitkees
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 19 2020 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 9050 |
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Like both ideas. I think the "tacky" songs have resonance with more PA members. The classic rock/pop hits seem to work well regarding participation (so, does this mean that we all here at PA are actually preferring the tacky/poppy music and that our love for prog is just an "attitude"? ) But I think it is OK to alternate them with the more proggy songs, although I think a certain "popularity" or "accessibility" helps to get more participation... The more difficult prog songs wear out on participation on the long run (as we've seen with Pirates), but well... we sometimes have to take up a challenge... All this, to say actually... nothing...
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 11 2007 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 10652 |
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^ For me, the tacky songs work because I have a hard time denigrating a song that is a good song or artistic (proggy). I also have a hard time denigrating a song I'm not familiar with.
Annoying songs i have heard way too many times are more fun to destroy, but thats just me. |
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suitkees
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 19 2020 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 9050 |
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^ Ah, that's funny... I never looked at it from that perspective... I mean, I never had the idea that we were denigrating the original songs - I think they've proven their outstanding and everlasting qualities, so we will not be able to denigrate them. We're not making fun of them, but making fun with them, imo. Otherwise I would not have started all this. With the first one, Hotel California, it was never my intention to denigrate that song, I love it - it's an all time classic for me. And I love all those original songs that we have "rewritten", so far. But I don't mind at all turning them into a joke, they can have it and it won't alter my admiration for those songs (even the Phil Collins one!).
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 11 2007 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 10652 |
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^
Edited by Easy Money - September 01 2021 at 16:33 |
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JD
Forum Senior Member Joined: February 07 2009 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 18446 |
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Not denigrate...sillyfy ! (a word of my own making) Building on some of the previous comments I believe the lyrics should be
somewhat easily transferred into other words. So, take a line or two
and think to yourself, how easily and humourously can this lyric be
modified. Maybe this game should now have a poll added to decide which song to massacre next.
Edited by JD - September 02 2021 at 05:53 |
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 11 2007 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 10652 |
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^ Okay, sillify for some songs, ...but denigrate for the ones I don't like
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