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Slartibartfast 
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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 Posted: May 28 2009 at 20:57 |
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I kinda like this one from Marillion:
Why do the gods
Sit back and watch
So many lost
What kind of mother
Leaves a child in the traffic
Turning tricks in the dark
What kind of god?
admin edit: posting full lyrics is a copyright breach, please don't do it.
Edited by Tony R - May 30 2009 at 12:39
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Mellotron Storm
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 27 2006
Location: The Beach
Status: Offline
Points: 13416
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Posted: May 28 2009 at 22:51 |
 Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Epignosis wrote:
The album has nothing to do with Jehovah's Witnesses. And who cares if the church hasn't sold indulgences in centuries- the album is about the importance of Martin Luther. In his day, it was a big deal.
Sorry, but I just reviewed Sola Scriptura and Morse is not "preaching."
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Of course it has nothing to do with JW, that was my example, but say whatever, Morse is preaching, teaching Luther from a Christian perspective and attacking other religion......That's why I believe evangelism in Rock is wrong.
You say he's not preaching, to the text I go
So in my hour of pain and sorrow
Please, Jesus, walk me through the dark
'Cause if I die with him I will rise again
With heaven in my heart
Oh God, help me to have heaven in my heart
My God he has a plan and I can do no other
God help me, here I stand, this is the only way
Please man, this is not a historical perspective, this is clear preaching
Look I got two big horns like a lamb
Even though Peter was married I can't
Look I've got great big armie like a General
I may have a mistress but at least I'm a hetero
This is an attack to principles of the Catholic faith that subsist until today like celibacy, you may agree or not with it, but it's part of our beliefs...No relation with indulgences, just an excuse to attack.
We'll take the Roman Gods except the names will all be changed
This is an attack to the Saints, has no relation with indulgences, is just an excuse to preach attacking a different belief.
So please, it's obvious he's preaching.
Iván
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I still don't see how that's preaching.He's basically showing us what Luther may have thought as he went through these trials.
Edited by Tony R - May 30 2009 at 12:39
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"The wind is slowly tearing her apart"
"Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN
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King Crimson776
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 12 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2779
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Posted: May 28 2009 at 23:49 |
StyLaZyn wrote:
Is this preachy?"Rejoice For the king is here
Yes he's with us now
Whispering in your ear"
or
"And the glory of the Lord Shall be face to face
And the glory
And the glory of the Lord
Shall dwell in this place
And the Spirit
And the Spirit of the Lord
Shall be like a cloud
Be ye holy
And the Spirit of the Lord
It shall fill the house" |
No it's not... but yeah it's not creative either. To be fair these are some of his worst lyrics. He has some great lines, even in his Christian stuff.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535
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Posted: May 29 2009 at 00:28 |
sinkadotentree wrote:
I still don't see how that's preaching.He's basically showing us what Luther may have thought as he went through these trials. |
You said the magic word MAY (According to Morse)
That's preaching, placing him as almost an equivalent of a saint, when as a act we know he thought differenty things along his life.
What about the clear attacks against another Church?
Iván
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Failcore
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 27 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 4625
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Posted: May 29 2009 at 00:42 |
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Blah Blah, "I can't handle viewpoints different than mine", blah, blah. Pretty much sums up this thread. Grow some skin people. If you have any will power in applying your philosophy/religion/whatever, you shouldn't feel turned off by other people's views or even direct attacks. Have the courage of your convictions for Spaghetti's Monster's sake.
Edited by Deathrabbit - May 29 2009 at 00:43
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Failcore
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 27 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 4625
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Posted: May 29 2009 at 00:47 |
The T wrote:
By the way, that statistic you provided of your country is very interesting. And from my perspective, something to imitate. |
Because singular viewpoints held by an overwhelming majority never leads to anything bad (cough, Crusades, cough.) Why can't people celebrate differences for a change? Why are they always treated like battle lines?
Edited by Deathrabbit - May 29 2009 at 00:47
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Mellotron Storm
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 27 2006
Location: The Beach
Status: Offline
Points: 13416
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Posted: May 29 2009 at 07:19 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
sinkadotentree wrote:
I still don't see how that's preaching.He's basically showing us what Luther may have thought as he went through these trials. |
You said the magic word MAY (According to Morse)
That's preaching, placing him as almost an equivalent of a saint, when as a act we know he thought differenty things along his life.
What about the clear attacks against another Church?
Iván |
I used the word "may" Ivan because i didn't know if Morse was paraphrasing something Luther himself may have actually said. I still don't know that but it just seems like reasonable thoughts from someone going against a powerful organisation.
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"The wind is slowly tearing her apart"
"Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN
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StyLaZyn
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 22 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4079
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Posted: May 29 2009 at 07:38 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
sinkadotentree wrote:
I still don't see how that's preaching.He's basically showing us what Luther may have thought as he went through these trials. |
You said the magic word MAY (According to Morse)
That's preaching, placing him as almost an equivalent of a saint, when as a act we know he thought differenty things along his life.
What about the clear attacks against another Church?
Iván |
Placing who on the equivalent of a saint?
Imagine that...a Church being negative about another Church. Such a wonderful God to guide his flock into different beliefs. Russian roulette for the soul.
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 17444
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Posted: May 29 2009 at 09:10 |
Epignosis wrote:
I think "preachy" is a lame ass euphemism. |
I actually think this discussion is far more "preachy" than any of the music in question .... heck, they don't even have the guts to mention " The Soft Parade" .... the rest is just piddly stuff used as a fill-in for a "lyric" ...
It also gets the attention of people that don't know any better!
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Mellotron Storm
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 27 2006
Location: The Beach
Status: Offline
Points: 13416
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Posted: May 29 2009 at 09:41 |
Anyway to get back to the original; posters question about lyrics, if they offend me then i don't listen to it,but for me lyrics are secondary to the music. There are some albums though where the lyrics really do add to the my enjoyment of it, like "Sola Scriptura". 
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"The wind is slowly tearing her apart"
"Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN
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friso
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 24 2007
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 2506
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Posted: May 29 2009 at 09:55 |
Religion hasn´t really served the artists and knowlegde of mankind. I therefore wander why one would love to sing about it. I myself see inspiration to write great songs as a devine gift, but no reason there to refer to age old beliefs called monotheistic religions that just were confenient at the time. We now all have acces to knowlegde and this will hopefully lead to wisdom and ethics. Now, that´s something to sing about! Critisize your society for it´s flaws! And luckely, a lot of artist do just that.
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tamijo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 06 2009
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 4287
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Posted: May 29 2009 at 09:56 |
lazland wrote:
Morse is a little bit "preachy" because he has "found God" in the evangelical sense. Roine and The Flower Kings, to me, simply incorporate religious or mystic elements into the lyrics and music, an altogether different thing.
I never found Gabriel particularly religious, aside from Passion which is, after all, a soundtrack to a story of Christ, but this is without lyrics. I still haven't figured out what The Lamb is about after all these years, but I sense a science fiction/mystical undercurrent rather than anything overtly religious. Much of his early Genesis work dealt with England as a past entity, and much of his later work with either personal issues or political issues, never religious ones.
Nobody has ever really understood Jon Anderson's lyrics, and these, of course, very much deal with his own spiritual journey. On virtually every sleevenote for the past twenty years or so, he dedicates much of his music to "The Divine Mother".
I enjoy religious influences or stories about personal journeys in any form of music, prog or otherwise, but I have always mistrusted "in your face" evangelical people. I find them too intense.
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Just as a note, The Last temptation of crist, as not an religous film in the Classic sence.
Made by Allan Parker, 
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Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours
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StyLaZyn
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 22 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 4079
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Posted: May 29 2009 at 09:57 |
kingfriso wrote:
Religion hasn´t really served the artists and knowlegde of mankind. I therefore wander why one would love to sing about it. I myself see inspiration to write great songs as a devine gift, but no reason there to refer to age old beliefs called monotheistic religions that just were confenient at the time. We now all have acces to knowlegde and this will hopefully lead to wisdom and ethics. Now, that´s something to sing about! Critisize your society for it´s flaws! And luckely, a lot of artist do just that. |
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: May 29 2009 at 10:16 |
tamijo wrote:
Just as a note, The Last temptation of crist, as not an religous film in the Classic sence.
Made by Allan Parker, |
Someone did a movie about the governor of Florida? 
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535
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Posted: May 29 2009 at 11:16 |
StyLaZyn wrote:
Placing who on the equivalent of a saint? |
Maybe the word Saint is not perfect,because they deny the existence of saints, but this album is selling us the idea of a wonderful man that based his acts in God against the "corrupt·" Cathollic Church, but by own confession in the notes of the album Mr. Morse never included Luther's real feelings, of course he never mentions quotes that you can't say may passed by the head of Luther, but words he said.:
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“If I had to baptize a Jew, I would take him to the river Elbe, hang a stone around his neck and push him over with the words `I baptize thee in the name of Abraham’.”
- Martin Luther |
Of course this is not included in the album, only talks about the terrible Catholic Church, in the notes he mentions this sick anti semitism of Luther, but says something like he decided not to mention in the album, because Luther did great things (or something like that). 
Yes the Catholic Church made terrible mistakes, but the Pope John Paul II asked for pardon to the people.
StyLaZyn wrote:
Imagine that...a Church being negative about another Church. Such a wonderful God to guide his flock into different beliefs. Russian roulette for the soul. |
It's not God who guides men into this path, because of free will, man decides what to do.
I remember my mentor in the University, the great theologist Father Francesco Interdonatto (SJ) told us that the Catholic who didn't respected a Mosque or a Sinagogue was not a Catholic, because Allah, the God of the Jewishs and the God of the Christians is the same one, the same God of Abraham.
Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - May 29 2009 at 11:54
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Failcore
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 27 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 4625
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Posted: May 29 2009 at 11:29 |
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^ Your mentor kicks some unbelievable ass Ivan.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535
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Posted: May 29 2009 at 12:08 |
Deathrabbit wrote:
^ Your mentor kicks some unbelievable ass Ivan. |
Yes,he was a great man, recognized as Great Theoligist by the Vatican, one of the hardest proffesors I had, he asked us not to study or memorize, but to understand.
He wore the same shirt all the semester, old but clean, used a motorcycle, I believe from WW II, gave classes all day, never absent even when dying on cancer, and still had time to play sports in the beach all summer, I heard he said that his place was with the sinners, but I honestly believe he just loved the beach.
Despite he was Italian (A big red faced man) he rests in a humble tomb in Peru that he loved so much.
Iván
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Mellotron Storm
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 27 2006
Location: The Beach
Status: Offline
Points: 13416
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Posted: May 29 2009 at 12:11 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
StyLaZyn wrote:
Placing who on the equivalent of a saint? |
Maybe the word Saint is not perfect,because they deny the existence of saints, but this album is selling us the idea of a wonderful man that based his acts in God against the "corrupt·" Cathollic Church, but by own confession in the notes of the album Mr. Morse never included Luther's real feelings, of course he never mentions quotes that you can't say may passed by the head of Luther, but words he said.:
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“If I had to baptize a Jew, I would take him to the river Elbe, hang a stone around his neck and push him over with the words `I baptize thee in the name of Abraham’.”
- Martin Luther |
Of course this is not included in the album, only talks about the terrible Catholic Church, in the notes he mentions this sick anti semitism of Luther, but says something like he decided not to mention in the album, because Luther did great things (or something like that).
Yes the Catholic Church made terrible mistakes, but the Pope John Paul II asked for pardon to the people.
StyLaZyn wrote:
Imagine that...a Church being negative about another Church. Such a wonderful God to guide his flock into different beliefs. Russian roulette for the soul. |
It's not God who guides men into this path, because of free will, man decides what to do.
I remember my mentor in the University, the great theologist Father Francesco Interdonatto (SJ) told us that the Catholic who didn't respected a Mosque or a Sinagogue was not a Catholic, because Allah, the God of the Jewishs and the God of the Christians is the same one, the same God of Abraham.
Iván
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Neal found out after the album was finished that Martin Luther was anti-jewish and he debated if he should still release it but was encouraged to do so.I'm glad he did.I personally am an Isreal backer all the way.They're God's chosen people in my opinion.Do you want the story of Martin Luther censored? Because it's pretty hard to tell his story without making the Catholic church look bad.It's just history. By the way i have no doubt God guides people today, you don't have to rely on some person in their fancy clothes.
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"The wind is slowly tearing her apart"
"Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535
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Posted: May 29 2009 at 12:18 |
Very comfortable position, hidding those terrible words that would make hitler pale, and attacking other Church, well I understand it's harder to say "The catholic Church was bad but Luther wanted to vanmish the Jewishs from the face of the earth"
You say iot's hard to talk about Luther without attacking the catholic Church,n but seems very easy to attack the Catholic Church and hide Luther's history under the carpet.
Haver you ever heard a Catholic, Jewish or Moslem song attacking Luther?
Nope, we don't care at all, we don't loose our time hating those who some call brothers in christ or make evangelism through Rock.
Sorry, but that's the reason why I don't agree with Christian, Catholic or Jewish Rock if it does evangelism, they destroy the credibilty of music.
As Hank Hill said "Can’t you see you’re not making Christianity better, you’re just making rock n’ roll worse"
Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - May 29 2009 at 12:36
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32524
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Posted: May 29 2009 at 12:41 |
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Evangelism is telling the Good News of God's grace. That's what the word means.
As a Christian who owes his life to Jesus, I can't think of anything more deserving of my time and energy as a musician and songwriter than to write songs reflecting the truths of the Bible.
After all, the whole book of Psalms is nothing but songs ultimately praising and honoring God...
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Religious lyrics ?
