is Dire Straits prog-related?

ExittheLemming wrote: Atavachron wrote: Let's remember that musicians play together whether 'prog' or 'pop' or whatever, the fact that Levin or anybody else may appear in a band or on an album does not make it Progrelated, otherwise everything that included anyone from John Wetton to Stewart & Gaskin to Chris Squire's daughter would be eligible. Check out fille Squire's seminal début Artefacts of an an Ancient Juvenalia fastened by Fridge Magnets for an unapologetic slice of proto toddler bombastic Prog.

An ex-gf of mine used to say that I was so into Genesis, I'd buy an album by Phil Collins' mailman if he put out an album.  Perhaps said mailman should qualify for prog-related as well. 

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: jammun wrote: I'm guilty of occasionally bringing up the subject. There's a live version of Brothers In Arms (the song) that is pure prog-related if for no other reason than the brilliance of the guitar solo. There are live versions of the Local Hero final theme that are practically pure prog. There are versions of Speedway at Nazareth that are prog-folk. But as others have pointed out a few songs do not suffice to include the band. I have finished beating my head against that particular wall, and listen to both Dire Straits and Knopfler with the smug knowledge that others know not what they are missing. We are not missing this music, we are listening them knowing they are not Prog. Personally, I'm a fan of DS, I don't care if they are Prog or not, believing that people won't listen them because they are not a Prog band is wrong, Prog is not an award or quality certificate, only a genre as any other. Iván

Oh dear oh dear oh dear.

Not getting too deep into this bugger again but I think they're a helluvalot closer than some people we've happily slammed into the Proto and Related categories. Indeed, some of the mid-period stuff (most notably Love Over Gold album) fits our symphonic definition just fine.

@ the suggestion that the band isn't at all influenced by prog rock - well, Pick Withers was a member of Spring (I haven't heard them but they're in our eclectic sub-genre and have some pretty complimentary reviews here)


Edited by TGM: Orb - October 23 2011 at 11:15

Snow Dog wrote: Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: jammun wrote: I'm guilty of occasionally bringing up the subject. There's a live version of Brothers In Arms (the song) that is pure prog-related if for no other reason than the brilliance of the guitar solo. There are live versions of the Local Hero final theme that are practically pure prog. There are versions of Speedway at Nazareth that are prog-folk. But as others have pointed out a few songs do not suffice to include the band. I have finished beating my head against that particular wall, and listen to both Dire Straits and Knopfler with the smug knowledge that others know not what they are missing. We are not missing this music, we are listening them knowing they are not Prog. Personally, I'm a fan of DS, I don't care if they are Prog or not, believing that people won't listen them because they are not a Prog band is wrong, Prog is not an award or quality certificate, only a genre as any other. Iván It is indeed a bizarre assertion and the sense of smugness is misplaced. I'm sure we all listen to music that is not included here.

I think alike with Ivan. Two proggy tracks is not enough for inclusion. DS actually was my first favourite band and is still important to me (and probably 'Telegraph Road' even paved way for prog for me!). But we just can't include any good music we like.

I think both Dire Straits and the Police have charectaristic which can lure people into believe they are prog, both band have a sound of their own, a sort of agelass sound, a sound where you easly can see their influences and mentality, and you can say that the mentality and craftemenship in both the Police and Dire Straits aint so different from Gensis, King Crimson, or Rush and Yes in the way they have a strong identity and sound of their own,  while Dire Straits have a more retro style 50s rock and 60s psych and the Police have more contemporary style of punk, ska and reagge, they both develop the songs in a way which can in ways be similar to that of prog but in a more simplistic way, with other influences, DS is very influenced by Bob Dylan, and 60s folk singers, and Bob Marley and Velvet Underground is probably big influences on the Police,

by the time Gentle Giant started to take influence from Reagge into their pallet of styles were on the same time the Police released their debute album so you can say by that time Reagge had found its way into english art music and punk music, that is what made the Police such a winning band in terms of sound they took to simplistic styles punk and reagge and sophisticated it with english art-rock mentality, some space rock/canterbury flair and some jazzy touches to make it more exieting. Dire Straits were more into building rythmic r&b with a twangy guitars but was also able to give it a picturesque flair to it, one thing Dire Straits is good at is to give the songs nice atmospheres and warmth,

i would say that the 8 albums Elton have from 69 to 77 (or 10 albums) are between symphonic rock, crossover art rock, and related to prog or eclectic rock with glimps of prog, but some is also country, glam rock and ballads. IMO but the 20 or so albums after that is not prog but searching for himself (again) albums.

awaken77 wrote: aginor wrote: i would say that the 8 albums Elton have from 69 to 77 (or 10 albums) are between symphonic rock, crossover art rock, and related to prog or eclectic rock with glimps of prog, but some is also country, glam rock and ballads. IMO but the 20 or so albums after that is not prog but searching for himself (again) albums. I agree that early Elthon John albums (Madman across the water especially), has strong 'symphonic' feel

  i actualy see a paralell between Elton and his old bandmates in Simon Dupree and the Big Sound (later known as GG) in the way they utilised blues as a core to the music but also moved in different directions as well.

awaken77 wrote: Matti wrote: But we just can't include any good music we like. Tori Amos, Bjork are more 'MTV-related' than DS, why they are all here? There was a kind joke reference about Police and prog, but Andy Summers from Police collaborated with Soft Machine,Ayers,Fripp  and he isn't here so it seems the collaborator's taste is only criteria for inclusion, in questionable cases

I know what my problem is w/r/t Dire Straits/Knopfler is, and why I think they are on occasion proggy. What did Knopfler do when DS disbanded? He started writing movie soundtracks. What are movie soundtracks? The cinema is visual. The soundtrack provides atmosphere, suspense, release, and even context to the visuals. This is often very simple or very complex music, given that it must aurally convey what is happening visually. Knopfler has always strived for that (i.e., why else would you name an album Making Movies?) and if nothing else it is often almost orchestral. It's just beautiful music and I associate beautiful, thoughtfully composed rock music with prog. I'd be the last to argue that Money For Nothing is prog. I'd be the first to argue that something like Brothers In Arms (song) is prog. As said, it doesn't hurt that he's to this day probably the finest rock guitarist on the planet, which sort of skews one's point of view.