is Dire Straits prog-related?
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Topic: is Dire Straits prog-related?
Posted By: awaken77
Subject: is Dire Straits prog-related?
Date Posted: October 21 2011 at 08:16
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Most of band music is obviously blues-based rock But I think at least 2 tracks from Love Over gold album can be classified as prog: Telegraph road and Private investiations What do you think? |
Replies:
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: October 21 2011 at 08:24
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They've done some stuff I've liked say, Sultans of Swing and Romeo and Juliet but that's beside the point. Their credentials for prog related are minuscule at best i.e. they are clearly neither influenced by or influential to Prog and they first appeared when our beloved genre was tantamount to that unclaimed fart in a crowded elevator (1978) I have to confess however that I haven't heard either of the two tracks you mention. ------------- 
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Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: October 21 2011 at 08:32
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i would say they are more artsy blues rock and since Knophler have an affection for movie scores, that tends to seague into the music (he have also done some film-scores, but that is beside the point) a lot of his music have a movie-esque quality, dramatic quality but less prog then similar minded Supertramp, who also utelize a movie-score-esque dramatourlogy in their music, I would say that Dire Straits are in the artsy rock category with 10cc, Roxy Music and Supertramp, with the focus on the arrangement more then the instrumentation and the music backs up the words and the words are used to propell a personal or observational message, all the 4 mentioned bands are bands with great lyrics and with very scilled musician but it is the words that are the core of the music not the instruments, they ar their to back the dramatourlogy, but that is my opinion
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Posted By: awaken77
Date Posted: October 21 2011 at 09:20
it deserves to check out . this song tells a story, so it can be considered 'epic' and that's a good one too |
ExittheLemming wrote:Posted By: AtomicCrimsonRush
Date Posted: October 21 2011 at 09:26
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I saw these guys live in the 80s and it was a great live performance - But they are not prog or even related to prog... great music though and Private Investigations is brilliant live! ------------- 
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Posted By: Evolver
Date Posted: October 21 2011 at 09:52
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I would say no. ------------- Trust me. I know what I'm doing. |
Posted By: Easy Livin
Date Posted: October 21 2011 at 10:27
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They have featured in our "Suggest new bands" section several times, the most recent of which being http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=76988" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=76988
In that thread, you'll see links to the other threads too.
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: October 21 2011 at 10:34
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Yes. This has been discussed to death ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: October 21 2011 at 10:36
is Dire Straits prog-related?No they are MTV related -------------   
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: October 21 2011 at 10:39
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No. ------------- 
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: October 21 2011 at 10:48
Yep, you are right
And of course, always rejected. Not Prog or PR, but enjoy their music. And (respectfully),Awaken gives us the best argument against their inclusion:
Two tracks are not enough in a long career, and we are not even talking about two tracks of the caliber of Close to the Edge, Karn Evil 9, or Supper's Ready, we are talking about two tracks that may have some Prog leanings. If we were to add bands that had one or two tracks influenced by Prog or even Prog, we would have to include 90% of the early 70?s acts and at least have 500 more artists, of course, y that point, Prog would had lost all it's identity. Not remotely enough in my humble opinion. Iván
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http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=76988&KW=dire+strait&PN=1" rel="nofollow - 1 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=76988&KW=dire+strait&PN=2" rel="nofollow - 2 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=76988&KW=dire+strait&PN=3" rel="nofollow - 3 
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=57779&KW=dire+strait" rel="nofollow - Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: October 21 2011 at 10:59
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I'm pretty inclusive, but Dire Straits has not made any impression on me as a suitable candidate for Prog-Related. |
Posted By: irrelevant
Date Posted: October 21 2011 at 11:06
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No, and I certainly don't see them in the same league (prog wise) as Supertramp or 10cc. 10cc are proper prog BTW *hint hint* (again)  ------------- https://gabebuller.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - New album! http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7385" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7385 |
Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: October 21 2011 at 11:10
10CC are, indeed, far stronger candidates for inclusion. They were part of the same art rock bunch such as Bowie & Roxy Music in the 1970's. ------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: October 21 2011 at 11:18
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Posted By: irrelevant
Date Posted: October 21 2011 at 11:20
10cc are here under prog-related. In my opinion they should be in crossover. I could go on and explain my reasons why, but I'd rather not change the thread subject too much to the point of possible derailment.
------------- https://gabebuller.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - New album! http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7385" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7385 |
Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: October 21 2011 at 11:29
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this is one song i find is proggy by Dire Straits standards even sounds like KC and i think Tony Levin plays Chapman stick on it -------------
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Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: October 21 2011 at 17:28
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I'm guilty of occasionally bringing up the subject. There's a live version of Brothers In Arms (the song) that is pure prog-related if for no other reason than the brilliance of the guitar solo. There are live versions of the Local Hero final theme that are practically pure prog. There are versions of Speedway at Nazareth that are prog-folk. But as others have pointed out a few songs do not suffice to include the band. I have finished beating my head against that particular wall, and listen to both Dire Straits and Knopfler with the smug knowledge that others know not what they are missing. ------------- Can you tell me where we're headin'? Lincoln County Road or Armageddon. |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: October 21 2011 at 20:01
We are not missing this music, we are listening them knowing they are not Prog. Personally, I'm a fan of DS, I don't care if they are Prog or not, believing that people won't listen them because they are not a Prog band is wrong, Prog is not an award or quality certificate, only a genre as any other. Iván -------------
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: October 21 2011 at 20:10
| Let's remember that musicians play together whether 'prog' or 'pop' or whatever, the fact that Levin or anybody else may appear in a band or on an album does not make it Progrelated, otherwise everything that included anyone from John Wetton to Stewart & Gaskin to Chris Squire's daughter would be eligible. |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: October 21 2011 at 20:19
Check out fille Squire's seminal début Artefacts of an an Ancient Juvenalia fastened by Fridge Magnets for an unapologetic slice of proto toddler bombastic Prog. -------------
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Posted By: The Doctor
Date Posted: October 21 2011 at 20:33
An ex-gf of mine used to say that I was so into Genesis, I'd buy an album by Phil Collins' mailman if he put out an album. Perhaps said mailman should qualify for prog-related as well. ------------- I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you? |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: October 21 2011 at 23:40
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: October 22 2011 at 04:25
It is indeed a bizarre assertion and the sense of smugness is misplaced. I'm sure we all listen to music that is not included here. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: October 22 2011 at 04:49
Nah, I've heard them. It's strictly Scooby 'Doo Wop' barking -------------
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Posted By: TGM: Orb
Date Posted: October 23 2011 at 11:15
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Oh dear oh dear oh dear. Not getting too deep into this bugger again but I think they're a helluvalot closer than some people we've happily slammed into the Proto and Related categories. Indeed, some of the mid-period stuff (most notably Love Over Gold album) fits our symphonic definition just fine. @ the suggestion that the band isn't at all influenced by prog rock - well, Pick Withers was a member of Spring (I haven't heard them but they're in our eclectic sub-genre and have some pretty complimentary reviews here) |
Posted By: lucas
Date Posted: October 23 2011 at 12:26
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they played good music.
And that is the most important thing about them. ------------- "Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood) |
Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: October 23 2011 at 14:17
Sorry guys, I assumed the use of the word "smug" would sufficiently convey a certain portion of my tongue in my cheek. ------------- Can you tell me where we're headin'? Lincoln County Road or Armageddon. |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: October 23 2011 at 14:30
I'm sorry if I misunderstood you.  ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Matti
Date Posted: October 25 2011 at 03:25
| I think alike with Ivan. Two proggy tracks is not enough for inclusion. DS actually was my first favourite band and is still important to me (and probably 'Telegraph Road' even paved way for prog for me!). But we just can't include any good music we like. |
Posted By: awaken77
Date Posted: October 25 2011 at 04:44
Tori Amos, Bjork are more 'MTV-related' than DS, why they are all here? There was a kind joke reference about Police and prog, but Andy Summers from Police collaborated with Soft Machine,Ayers,Fripp and he isn't here so it seems the collaborator's taste is only criteria for inclusion, in questionable cases |
Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: October 25 2011 at 06:14
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I think both Dire Straits and the Police have charectaristic which can lure people into believe they are prog, both band have a sound of their own, a sort of agelass sound, a sound where you easly can see their influences and mentality, and you can say that the mentality and craftemenship in both the Police and Dire Straits aint so different from Gensis, King Crimson, or Rush and Yes in the way they have a strong identity and sound of their own, while Dire Straits have a more retro style 50s rock and 60s psych and the Police have more contemporary style of punk, ska and reagge, they both develop the songs in a way which can in ways be similar to that of prog but in a more simplistic way, with other influences, DS is very influenced by Bob Dylan, and 60s folk singers, and Bob Marley and Velvet Underground is probably big influences on the Police, by the time Gentle Giant started to take influence from Reagge into their pallet of styles were on the same time the Police released their debute album so you can say by that time Reagge had found its way into english art music and punk music, that is what made the Police such a winning band in terms of sound they took to simplistic styles punk and reagge and sophisticated it with english art-rock mentality, some space rock/canterbury flair and some jazzy touches to make it more exieting. Dire Straits were more into building rythmic r&b with a twangy guitars but was also able to give it a picturesque flair to it, one thing Dire Straits is good at is to give the songs nice atmospheres and warmth, -------------
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: October 25 2011 at 06:29
I am not familiar with all of DS's work but which DS album is as proggy as Medula? I am curious...because Medula is far removed from MTV related in the sense you seem to imply here. Tori Amos is art rock rather than prog rock and I have said before that I don't see why we shouldn't also have Elton John and Stevie Wonder, maybe even Kinks if we have Tori Amos. Even better, Tori is classified as Crossover Prog and Kate Bush as PR but I don't know which Tori album is as proggy as The Dreaming. But...I'd also add that on a database which has Nightwish as prog, I don't have any objection to Tori Amos also being on here. In fact, Nightwish being on PA makes a lot of bands acceptable for the requirements of prog archives. I don't agree at all with the general tendency to look at prog metal as something different and believe there should be an overall cut off which any band classified as prog in any genre should surpass. But that's just my view and it IS ultimately about the collabs' views. If they are convinced either way, there's nothing much you can do to change their mind and once a band is on the archives, it's not going to be deleted.
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Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: October 25 2011 at 06:36
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i would say that the 8 albums Elton have from 69 to 77 (or 10 albums) are between symphonic rock, crossover art rock, and related to prog or eclectic rock with glimps of prog, but some is also country, glam rock and ballads. IMO but the 20 or so albums after that is not prog but searching for himself (again) albums.
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Posted By: awaken77
Date Posted: October 25 2011 at 09:50
I agree that early Elthon John albums (Madman across the water especially), has strong 'symphonic' feel |
Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: October 25 2011 at 11:02
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Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: October 25 2011 at 21:20
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The problem with Dire Straits is that they were on the one hand an MTV band, and nearly everyone who has heard music in the last sheesh is it thirty years now, knows Money For Nothing, which is about as overplayed as Stairway To Heaven or Freebird to the point I really don't care if I never hear it again, except there is that riff... And then there was Twisting By The Pool and who knows what else on the MTV, which does not help with the general perception. As previously said, I'm done beating my head against that wall. What I will say is that Mark Knopfler is probably the best guitar player out there, save maybe Jeff Beck. Those two are just in a class by themselves, I don't care what Rolling Stone or anyone else sez. Someone else posted this before, but here's a YouTube video of Knopfler (song is Brothers in Arms). Frankly, one does not hear music this powerful very often. I don't know if it's prog or not. I would say it is. Others will disagree. But please lie back and enjoy it. If it's MTV, bring more of that stuff on. http://youtu.be/5vUDmFjWgVo ------------- Can you tell me where we're headin'? Lincoln County Road or Armageddon. |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: October 25 2011 at 22:08
My persaonal opinion is that neither Tori Amos or Bjork should be here (Maybe I'm wrong), but I respect the teams work...If this is a mistake, doesn't justify another mistake. As I said before, if somebody punches you and leaves a purple eye, you donżt hit your other eye to make it even....Even if Bjork and Tori Amos weren't Prog, their additions doesn't justify the addition of another non-Prog artist. Iván -------------
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Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: October 25 2011 at 22:13
I disagree with a number of artists whom have been added in Crossover; my opinion is that these acts should be in prog-related. That said, as much as I love Dire Straits, they are not prog, nor prog-related, in my opinion. Damn good though. 
------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: October 25 2011 at 22:38
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I know what my problem is w/r/t Dire Straits/Knopfler is, and why I think they are on occasion proggy. What did Knopfler do when DS disbanded? He started writing movie soundtracks. What are movie soundtracks? The cinema is visual. The soundtrack provides atmosphere, suspense, release, and even context to the visuals. This is often very simple or very complex music, given that it must aurally convey what is happening visually. Knopfler has always strived for that (i.e., why else would you name an album Making Movies?) and if nothing else it is often almost orchestral. It's just beautiful music and I associate beautiful, thoughtfully composed rock music with prog. I'd be the last to argue that Money For Nothing is prog. I'd be the first to argue that something like Brothers In Arms (song) is prog. As said, it doesn't hurt that he's to this day probably the finest rock guitarist on the planet, which sort of skews one's point of view. ------------- Can you tell me where we're headin'? Lincoln County Road or Armageddon. |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: October 25 2011 at 22:40
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To me, the closest they got to prog was not "Telegraph Road," but "Love Over Gold." ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: October 25 2011 at 22:52
I like Telegraph Road well enough, but it always struck me as a sort of too influenced by Springsteen somehow. For me, Industrial Disease is the best song on that album; though it's decidedly not prog, it's funny as it gets. ------------- Can you tell me where we're headin'? Lincoln County Road or Armageddon. |
Posted By: uduwudu
Date Posted: October 26 2011 at 05:43
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Always thought Telegraph Road was the song Bruce Springsteen had always wanted to write. I this vein one would have to include Hurricane by Bob Dylan. Private Investigations' guitar theme was a nick from something I heard but cannot recall (years and years ago...) If Straits got in to being a prog band (obviously not) Twisting By The Pool wouldn then become the worst / most hated (and that's just me and me being nice) prog song of all time... A good way of figuring the answer is which Genesis albums would a Dire Straits fan own... |
Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: October 26 2011 at 06:44
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this is very progressive i think -------------
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Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: October 26 2011 at 07:28
Nah - Walk Of Life +++shudder+++ ------------- 
Jon Lord 1941 - 2012 |
Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: October 26 2011 at 07:29
In my case - everything up to 'Abacab'  -------------
Jon Lord 1941 - 2012 |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: October 26 2011 at 07:40
I agree with you soooooooo much Jim. Hateful. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: October 26 2011 at 08:10
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All together now - you all know the riff...
Deee de. De de de de de deeeeeeee de. De de deeeee de. De de de de de deeeeeeeee AAAAAAAGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!!! -------------
Jon Lord 1941 - 2012 |
Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: October 26 2011 at 08:11
That riff's in your head now, isn't it  -------------
Jon Lord 1941 - 2012 |
Posted By: irrelevant
Date Posted: October 26 2011 at 08:21
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^ DAMN YOU!!! Oh well, there are worse songs out there. ------------- https://gabebuller.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - New album! http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7385" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7385 |
Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: October 26 2011 at 11:28
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Dire Straits did some great tracks like Private Investigations and Calling Elvis. But I find Walk Of Life one of the most horrible tracks made by a well known band. Twisting By The Pool is also a song that I actively hate. The riff is in my head too  |
Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: October 26 2011 at 11:35
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always liked this fantastic song, most iconic sax line after Carless Wispers -------------
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Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: October 26 2011 at 15:34
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Oh man, I had forgotten about Walk of Life. Though really, I give Knopfler a pass on those fails. He's not the first nor last to have recorded various piles of sh*t. I submit Jeff Beck's Truth as evidence. We just will not mention (well actually we will) Beck Bogart and Appice. ------------- Can you tell me where we're headin'? Lincoln County Road or Armageddon. |