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Catcher10 View Drop Down
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Points: 17863 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 20 2011 at 19:35
Why am I still able to post here??

Please close this thread.....Thank you and have a great day!
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Alitare View Drop Down
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Points: 3595 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 20 2011 at 19:52
Then I was inspired  -now I'm sad and tired.
After all I've tried for three years!
Feels like 90.

I'm not as sure as when we started.
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Points: 16715 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 20 2011 at 20:14
Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Why am I still able to post here??

Please close this thread.....Thank you and have a great day!

Because it's in JFF now. Which means we can say whatever we want! NO MODS NO MASTERS ANARCHY ANARCHY WOOOOOOOO
if you own a sodastream i hate you
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Points: 9869 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 20 2011 at 22:33
Originally posted by popeyethecat popeyethecat wrote:

Once something is already established as very male...it can be hard to break into it as a female! I know that if I uploaded a video to YouTube of myself playing anything remotely metal, for example, the comments would be littered with "she's hot" "she's ugly" "girls can't play metal" "why do girls try to be like guys?" "she needs to get back in the kitchen", etc., with a few girls saying something to the effect of "you go girl" or "I'm better AND hotter so NYEH".

So, one issue is the routine objectification of women. If you hear a female singing on a track, a very large amount of the listeners will instantly think "huh, I wonder if she's hot."

The other thing is that once it's established as male, people will feel that ONLY males are good at it, and women who do something that is on a par are either criticised for not being the BEST EVAR (whereas males of a similar level will be appreciated for being pretty good and the "not the best" thing is kind of ignored) or are glorified because hey, it's a woman!!!!! Also, once it's established as a masculine thing, people will sometimes accuse women of abandoning their femininity. Oh dear. None of this is very encouraging!

So, why is it like this?

"Prog" started at a time when popular music was male-dominated as a general rule, really. People were still breaking out of traditional gender roles. So, not a particularly good start.

As my boyfriend points out (haha), music is also a great way of wooing the ladies, and teenage blokes will often learn the guitar. But this doesn't go the other way so much culturally. The guitar itself is often seen as a masculine instrument (mind you, I play the Classical guitar. There are many, many, many exceptions to this "rule"), as is also the case for the bass and the drums (again, there are exceptions). Hmm. These instruments have another thing in common - they are used a LOT in prog!

There are plenty of great female singers, songwriters and musicians. But not a lot of these women are in prog bands. I would love to be in a band, but I'd be afraid of being objectified and being judged to harshly simply because I'm female. And it kind of puts me off.

In conclusion: I blame social attitudes and not biology.   
 
I concur with Logan. Hard hitting post, spells out a lot of things that I had suspected.  Clap As for the part of it that I highlighted, there's an extension or variation, by whatever name called, to it:  "there are so many males making music so we don't mind if some girls wanna make music too but it doesn't really matter and we don't really need them."  This is a more benign form of discrimination and unfortunately the most detrimental because such listeners would probably swear on oath that they are not sexist. 
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dreadpirateroberts View Drop Down
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Points: 952 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2011 at 00:32

^ I agree. It was a well-argued post and I don't believe there should be a desperate rush to close the thread.

And Isn't 'discussion' the key ifocus of a discussion forum?
 
 
EDIT: Although, moving the thread to 'just for fun' may trivialise it. Though I do undertsand why it was moved, it was getting a fair amount of trolling.


Edited by dreadpirateroberts - July 21 2011 at 00:39
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Points: 4160 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2011 at 00:43
I was gonna write something serious but then Henry's post made me lol all over the floor.

But OOIOO is one of the best avant prog bands and they're all women! Who said women can't avant-prog (my great grandfather used to say that all the time, it was a different era, when only mice could avant prog.)
There be dragons
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Points: 67407 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2011 at 04:26
But over 8% of the population will always be mice, right? Ermm
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Points: 4160 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2011 at 05:12
ummm... shya
There be dragons
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Points: 934 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2011 at 06:20
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Please close this thread.
 

   And Why is that !  just Ignore it if you don't like it , these Threads doesn't belong to you Epig , so respect others Opinion , otherwise , if there's anything against  this site policy , just close it yourself or send me a message , telling me why , and I will !   Wink   have a nice day !
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Points: 3126 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2011 at 06:34
It's almost disturbing to me as to why there are not more female instrumentalists releasing progressive music to the world. The female population of serious musicians has always seemed to jump on board with prog men. For example.....A band like Art Zoyd would have a female in the ranks........People might be curious? Who is the girl? or the lady?.....I like the whole band, but who is the girl? I mean doesn't that just anger you? Okay whoever she is ....she must be an outlander or an invader. Women are treated like that in prog. How do the members of ART ZOYD feel about Patricia Dallio? It's just all frustrating......the world's image of a woman taken seriously in music. A woman who does not sing for a living. Or sing and play piano. Norri Bucci plays a jazz/fusion guitar style, rock guitar, and acoustic work. She has an instrumental piece she performs live on youtube titled "Reacurring Nightmare". She has an amazing technique and incredible feel. She could play anything asked of her within the progressive genre. Check her out and get back to me. She comes across as a very shy soul with a humble attitude and plays some pretty amazing lead guitar work. I'm sorry for my attitude ...but she is light years ahead of many of the male guitar instructors on youtube who have degrees and years of touring experience under their belt.
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Points: 32530 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2011 at 06:35
Originally posted by trackstoni trackstoni wrote:

Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Please close this thread.
 

   And Why is that !  just Ignore it if you don't like it , these Threads doesn't belong to you Epig , so respect others Opinion , otherwise , if there's anything against  this site policy , just close it yourself or send me a message , telling me why , and I will !   Wink   have a nice day !


This thread in some form or another has been opened multiple times.  A recent thread on poetry was closed because a poetry thread already exists.  This thread is redundant.
https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays
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fusionfreak View Drop Down
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Points: 1317 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2011 at 07:01
Renate Knaup,Heather Findley,Joan Baez(non prog),Julie Driscoll,Rachel Jones,Inga Rumpf,Dagmar Krause.........There are various examples of talented women in prog and other genres.For me progressive rock is a music addicts mania,I don't care about gender,we're all equals with our qualities and shortcomings.Women who play want to be recognised for what they do and not for their bodies.Moreover they don't care about their  hotness when playing in front of strangers,they keep it for the people they love.
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Points: 3126 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2011 at 09:23
I worked with a female keyboardist years ago and we wrote and recorded together. I would show to her house and walk in on her as she practiced TARKUS. It was only a matter of a month until she had the entire piece down. I would tell her that she was outstanding as my mouth dropped to the floor. She would respond like...."Really? "You think so?" A drummer I worked with who played a lot of Dream Theatre material said to me one day...."How did you find this girl?"  She felt scared and lacked confidence, but could play almost anything in Progressive Rock. Can you figure this out because I can't.  Maybe she felt alone in her gender?
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Points: 67407 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2011 at 09:30
Originally posted by TODDLER TODDLER wrote:

I worked with a female keyboardist years ago and we wrote and recorded together. I would show to her house and walk in on her as she practiced TARKUS. It was only a matter of a month until she had the entire piece down. I would tell her that she was outstanding as my mouth dropped to the floor. She would respond like...."Really? "You think so?" A drummer I worked with who played a lot of Dream Theatre material said to me one day...."How did you find this girl?"  She felt scared and lacked confidence, but could play almost anything in Progressive Rock. Can you figure this out because I can't.  Maybe she felt alone in her gender?
That's a bit sexist k. Maybe she felt alone in her self?
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Points: 17863 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2011 at 09:36
Originally posted by Henry Plainview Henry Plainview wrote:

Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Why am I still able to post here??

Please close this thread.....Thank you and have a great day!

Because it's in JFF now. Which means we can say whatever we want! NO MODS NO MASTERS ANARCHY ANARCHY WOOOOOOOO

 
I see that now, moved to JFF..........
 
BTW....prog suxs.
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Points: 3126 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2011 at 10:00
Originally posted by Vompatti Vompatti wrote:

Originally posted by TODDLER TODDLER wrote:

I worked with a female keyboardist years ago and we wrote and recorded together. I would show to her house and walk in on her as she practiced TARKUS. It was only a matter of a month until she had the entire piece down. I would tell her that she was outstanding as my mouth dropped to the floor. She would respond like...."Really? "You think so?" A drummer I worked with who played a lot of Dream Theatre material said to me one day...."How did you find this girl?"  She felt scared and lacked confidence, but could play almost anything in Progressive Rock. Can you figure this out because I can't.  Maybe she felt alone in her gender?
That's a bit sexist k. Maybe she felt alone in her self?
How can that be sexist when many women feel this way because of us? That's where I am going with this by being direct and to the point. All the superb female musicians I've worked with for years have been threatened by the bully male mentality. I have also been told by a majority of them that women friends in their life pressured them to be something else other than a musician. All and from both sides of different genders seem to invade their space. I seem to think this may be the reason in the sensitive and artistic woman to feel feelings of depression toward society when it comes down to who exactly they are and who they want to be. I believe a majority of women feel this way in their sub-con. I think it's un-fair and not justified. I take it very seriously and respect them for their talents and I can surely see as a human being what it is they are suffering through.


Edited by TODDLER - July 21 2011 at 10:01
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Points: 67407 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2011 at 10:07
Originally posted by TODDLER TODDLER wrote:

Originally posted by Vompatti Vompatti wrote:

Originally posted by TODDLER TODDLER wrote:

I worked with a female keyboardist years ago and we wrote and recorded together. I would show to her house and walk in on her as she practiced TARKUS. It was only a matter of a month until she had the entire piece down. I would tell her that she was outstanding as my mouth dropped to the floor. She would respond like...."Really? "You think so?" A drummer I worked with who played a lot of Dream Theatre material said to me one day...."How did you find this girl?"  She felt scared and lacked confidence, but could play almost anything in Progressive Rock. Can you figure this out because I can't.  Maybe she felt alone in her gender?
That's a bit sexist k. Maybe she felt alone in her self?
How can that be sexist when many women feel this way because of us? That's where I am going with this by being direct and to the point. All the superb female musicians I've worked with for years have been threatened by the bully male mentality. I have also been told by a majority of them that women friends in their life pressured them to be something else other than a musician. All and from both sides of different genders seem to invade their space. I seem to think this may be the reason in the sensitive and artistic woman to feel feelings of depression toward society when it comes down to who exactly they are and who they want to be. I believe a majority of women feel this way in their sub-con. I think it's un-fair and not justified. I take it very seriously and respect them for their talents and I can surely see as a human being what it is they are suffering through.
True, but I believe this also applies to men.
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Points: 3126 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2011 at 10:16
Originally posted by Vompatti Vompatti wrote:

Originally posted by TODDLER TODDLER wrote:

Originally posted by Vompatti Vompatti wrote:

Originally posted by TODDLER TODDLER wrote:

I worked with a female keyboardist years ago and we wrote and recorded together. I would show to her house and walk in on her as she practiced TARKUS. It was only a matter of a month until she had the entire piece down. I would tell her that she was outstanding as my mouth dropped to the floor. She would respond like...."Really? "You think so?" A drummer I worked with who played a lot of Dream Theatre material said to me one day...."How did you find this girl?"  She felt scared and lacked confidence, but could play almost anything in Progressive Rock. Can you figure this out because I can't.  Maybe she felt alone in her gender?
That's a bit sexist k. Maybe she felt alone in her self?
How can that be sexist when many women feel this way because of us? That's where I am going with this by being direct and to the point. All the superb female musicians I've worked with for years have been threatened by the bully male mentality. I have also been told by a majority of them that women friends in their life pressured them to be something else other than a musician. All and from both sides of different genders seem to invade their space. I seem to think this may be the reason in the sensitive and artistic woman to feel feelings of depression toward society when it comes down to who exactly they are and who they want to be. I believe a majority of women feel this way in their sub-con. I think it's un-fair and not justified. I take it very seriously and respect them for their talents and I can surely see as a human being what it is they are suffering through.
True, but I believe this also applies to men.
I agree totally with you. I'm a bit of a tear jerker with women. I often think of the limitations that have been applied to their lives that were rules with barriers invented by man. I wonder what it is like for a woman to remember that and live with it? It's very sad and difficult for me personally to understand how women can deal with that kind of pain. 
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Points: 67407 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 21 2011 at 10:19
Originally posted by TODDLER TODDLER wrote:

Originally posted by Vompatti Vompatti wrote:

Originally posted by TODDLER TODDLER wrote:

Originally posted by Vompatti Vompatti wrote:

Originally posted by TODDLER TODDLER wrote:

I worked with a female keyboardist years ago and we wrote and recorded together. I would show to her house and walk in on her as she practiced TARKUS. It was only a matter of a month until she had the entire piece down. I would tell her that she was outstanding as my mouth dropped to the floor. She would respond like...."Really? "You think so?" A drummer I worked with who played a lot of Dream Theatre material said to me one day...."How did you find this girl?"  She felt scared and lacked confidence, but could play almost anything in Progressive Rock. Can you figure this out because I can't.  Maybe she felt alone in her gender?
That's a bit sexist k. Maybe she felt alone in her self?
How can that be sexist when many women feel this way because of us? That's where I am going with this by being direct and to the point. All the superb female musicians I've worked with for years have been threatened by the bully male mentality. I have also been told by a majority of them that women friends in their life pressured them to be something else other than a musician. All and from both sides of different genders seem to invade their space. I seem to think this may be the reason in the sensitive and artistic woman to feel feelings of depression toward society when it comes down to who exactly they are and who they want to be. I believe a majority of women feel this way in their sub-con. I think it's un-fair and not justified. I take it very seriously and respect them for their talents and I can surely see as a human being what it is they are suffering through.
True, but I believe this also applies to men.
I agree totally with you. I'm a bit of a tear jerker with women. I often think of the limitations that have been applied to their lives that were rules with barriers invented by man. I wonder what it is like for a woman to remember that and live with it? It's very sad and difficult for me personally to understand how women can deal with that kind of pain. 
Awwwww Cry
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I like wimmens k
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