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Sean Trane 
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20514
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 Posted: July 05 2007 at 08:11 |
 Alucard wrote:
Sean Trane wrote:
Alucard wrote:
PS and I must agree once my local-patriotic feelings left aside that the Kraftwerk/Neu /Cluster /La Düsseldorf connection is not really Kraut, but what the heck.... Neu! and early kraftwerk not krautrock
PS2 Hugues the Dierks Studio are not in Cologne but on the countryside (Stommeln) closer in fact to Düsseldorf 
PS 3 : Oops Stommeln is closer to Cologne  >> Where were the studios in which Conny Plank worked at? I forgot to look that up!!
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Conny Planck's studio was also on a farm (those were the days ...in fact the studio was in an ancient pig-barn) near Bonn, that was were the first Kraftwerk & Neu records among others were recorded.
The Dinger Bros, M.Rother, Ralf Hütter , Florian Schneider etc. had really not much in common with the 'US/PsyRock oriented bands. They were more influenced by contemporary classical music & modern Art, especially Pop art. (BTW The Fluxus movement started at the Academy of Fine arts in Düsseldorf) with industrial-like repetitive rhythms and a certain tongue in cheek humour. They even dressed different.
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I'll update my first post about Plaznk's studio infos
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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iguana
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 01 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 825
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Posted: July 06 2007 at 03:33 |
fuxi wrote:
Alucard wrote:
Udo Lindenberg was the first Rock musician (in opposition to 'Schlager'= Pop music) who sang in German. His first records are worth checking out , great musicians and great lyrics. He became late a caricature of himself.
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Glad you appreciate him. "Wahnsinn und Genie gehen Hand in Hand." I particularly like PANISCHE NAECHTE, a rather gloomy album. |
UDOOOOOOOO! my main man i can even imitate his, erm, vocals.
a lot of the old hamburg school (“star club“, “onkel pö's“) was way too trad
for me and the still active musicians from then are forever wallowing in
some sad and very reactionary sort of nostalgia. it's all too much
bluez'n'booze for me and everyone will forever claim to have been
drinking with the beatles back in the day. get a life.
good to have brought up the berlin era of david bowie. i rest my case. berlin it is.
Edited by iguana - July 06 2007 at 03:38
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progressive rock and rural tranquility don't match. true or false?
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Rocktopus
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 02 2006
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 4202
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Posted: July 06 2007 at 05:27 |
iguana wrote:
QUOTE]
BTW what does a 'Fischkopp' thinks about the inclusion of Achim Reichel?
actually, i know achim – delightful chap. his “grüne reise“ and “wonderland“
stuff is quite credible in the krautrock-realm
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I love Die Grüne Reise. Echo is even more fantastic. Hamburg, right? Still, Berlin and Munich are in a league of their own. With Cologne/Bonn third, for Can & Conny Plank alone. Voted the most obvious, Berlin.
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Over land and under ashes
In the sunlight, see - it flashes
Find a fly and eat his eye
But don't believe in me
Don't believe in me
Don't believe in me
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Alucard
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 10 2004
Location: France
Status: Offline
Points: 3888
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Posted: July 06 2007 at 11:07 |
Enough is enough.... 
after all this talk about Berlin & Munich, I just have to take the defense of the Ruhrgebiet (industrial region in the North West of Germany : Essen, Dortmund, Düsseldorf, Bochum Oberhausen...)
1. The 'Ruhrgebiet' has the highest density of population in Germany about 16 million people, so just statistically it rocks more then the rest... 
2. Where does Krautrock start if you just have to fix one date? In september 1968 during the Internationale Essener Song Tage in Essen. (Traditionnaly left wing the region was more apt to support 'progessive' art movements in general.)
Amon Düül, Tangerin Dream, Guru Gruru groove, Bernd Witthüser among other played there for the first time in front of a lager public. (together with Zappa, Caravan , The Fugs Check out the program sheet below It was one of the biggest Rock events in the 60's
3. The German brain label organized equally in Essen the Brain Festival in 1977 (Grobschnitt, Novalis, Jane, Message, RMO,Guru Guru) and the famous 'Rockpalast' night (even so more US mainstream rock) started also in the Gruga in Essen.
4. The Ruhrgebiet has a large number of venues Essen : Gruga, Dortmund ; Westfallenhalle , Bochum Zeche, Düsseldorf : Phillipshalle and attracted most of the touring bands plus a large number of school auditoriums for lesser known or risring bands.
5. Again statistically apart from the more known bands like Grobschnitt, Hoelderlin, Epitath, Streetmark, Kraftwerk, LA-Düsseldorf, Neu!, Broselmachine the number of Prog bands per sqaremeter was just higher then the average. 
6. Berlin had a special situation during the cold war and up to 1989. It was an 'island ' in the middle of the tye GDR, was less accesible and had a great but limited scene.
So, vote massively for The Ruhr!!!
Edited by Alucard - July 06 2007 at 11:27
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Tadpoles keep screaming in my ear
"Hey there! Rotter's Club!
Explain the meaning of this song and share it"
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20514
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Posted: July 06 2007 at 11:42 |
It could be an added value to know where the different record labels were based (Pilz, Kukuck, Brain , Ohr, etc...) >>
where was Rockpalast filmed also?
Ruhrgebiet (industrial region in the North West of Germany : Essen, Dortmund, Düsseldorf, Bochum Oberhausen...) >> where is Duisburg in here? Kaiserslautern and Hagen also worth mentionning.
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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Alucard
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 10 2004
Location: France
Status: Offline
Points: 3888
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Posted: July 06 2007 at 14:26 |
Hugues, Duisburg is the bigest riverport next to 'Düsseldorf'(BTW I saw 'Caravan' in Duisburg in 1977) up the rhine. Hagen is in the east of the 'Ruhrgebiet and 'Kaiserslautern' is in the south of Germany (Rheinland Pfalz) The region itself crosses over 2 regions (Rheinland (west) & Westfalen Lippe(east) BTW Düsseldorf itself is not in the Ruhrgebiet even so it's eastern part is under it's administration. ...bureaucrates
The big 'Rockpalast' nights took place and were broadcasted from the Grugahalle in Essen (if my memory is good they have a double scene each at the oposite side of the venue so they could switch between the scenes). The other (single band) 'Rockpalasts' were filmed either in the studio(live) or with a mobile unit in concert venues all over Germany.
PS another factor that permitted the emergence of bands were the schoolbands. Often the schools proposed a rehearsal room for bands, which played first at school parties and some of them would become professional muiscians. I had a cool guitar player at my school (apart from me  ) who founded later the postpunk band ' Belphegor'.
Edited by Alucard - July 06 2007 at 15:11
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Tadpoles keep screaming in my ear
"Hey there! Rotter's Club!
Explain the meaning of this song and share it"
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Apsalar
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 06 2006
Location: gansu
Status: Offline
Points: 2888
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Posted: July 07 2007 at 21:22 |
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Once again some very interesting/detailed information Martin.
Unfortunately I when I traveled to Germany, arriving in Frankfurt,
then traveling across into east German [early 2004], I was still
relatively unaware of the scene in general [no CD splurges]. At the time my life
revolved around Can's Tago Mago and Faust's s/t, so the Cologne and Hamburg scenes will always hold
dear in my heart.
Ruhr, Munich and Berlin as a whole hold most of my attention these days. I could easily vote for Ruhr, producing one of the
most rocking live albums prog has seen with Solar live! Though I think
I will have to be predictable and vote for Munich, Out of Focus' albums
have blown me away over the years.
Please note it has been a little while since emerging myself in the genre, so my memory is a little shady.
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Bilek
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: July 05 2005
Location: Turkey
Status: Offline
Points: 1484
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Posted: July 09 2007 at 09:38 |
I am a complete outsider, and I don't know a bit about the geographical, sociological etc. situations, so all I care in this respect is the "schools"... Germany's two better-known schools (Berlin and Düsseldorf) influenced the entire electronica genre, but I now realized there were many other Krautrock (or close) bands from elswhere...
Still, my choice is clear, even for the sake of one man: Klaus Schulze! Wherever they (along with all those giants such as TD, Ash Ra Tempel, Agitation Free, Cosmic Jokers etc.) recorded their masterpieces is of little relevance, Schulze and the other two members of the first ART line-up met in Thomas Kessler's studio in Berlin, as far as I know while studying experimental music!...
Actually I always thought of Can (one of my favorite bands) a representative of Düsseldorf school, but apparently geographically they're from elswhere... That still doesn't change my opinion... I always prefer the spacy sound of Berlin bands (where was Wallenstein from?!?!?) over the "motorik" beat of Kraftwerk, Neu! etc.
(I might only reconsider my choice after learning where exactly Achim Reichel and Günter Schickert are from! Both are other representatives of the Echo guitar sound pioneered by Manuel Göttsching, -and despite the fact that AR actually used it before MG invented his album for electric guitar - and I simply love this approach! Well, Schickert's collaborations with Schulze actually give a hint...)
kenethlevine wrote:
when you have eloy and jane from the same city, the choice is clear! |
it's interesting to note that Scorpions is also from the same city ... I like their first album btw, but the poll title should not be overlooked: which city Krautrocked the most?!!!! Both Eloy and Jane, as well as Scorpions (which aren't even prog-rock in the majority of their career!) have clearly a more British sound then German, which is expressed in Kraut...
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Listen to Turkish psych/prog; you won't regret:
Baris Manco,Erkin Koray,Cem Karaca,Mogollar,3 Hürel,Selda,Edip Akbayram,Fikret Kizilok,Ersen (and Dadaslar) (but stick with the '70's, and 'early 80's!)
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Sampanviking
Forum Newbie
Joined: July 08 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 2
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Posted: July 09 2007 at 18:56 |
Well for me its Tangerine Dream vs Amon Duul II.
The Tangs are my favourite band, but Duul "rocked" far more and so I would have to go for Munich |
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Bilek
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Joined: July 05 2005
Location: Turkey
Status: Offline
Points: 1484
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Posted: July 20 2007 at 22:06 |
Sadly, this thread (poll) has been left forgotten!
Are there really that little krautrockers!?!?!?
I hope this move gives a little excitement btw, we (Berliners!) are ahead by one vote! Fans of other cities might want to step in and change the score
One more thing- I seriously ask the question: where are Wallenstein actually from? I cannot find enough info about them. I always thought of them as a Berlin band, and their members' interactions suggest so (Harald Grosskopf, Cosmic Jokers etc.)
(and whereever they are from, this will not influence my decision...)
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Listen to Turkish psych/prog; you won't regret:
Baris Manco,Erkin Koray,Cem Karaca,Mogollar,3 Hürel,Selda,Edip Akbayram,Fikret Kizilok,Ersen (and Dadaslar) (but stick with the '70's, and 'early 80's!)
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46838
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Posted: July 20 2007 at 22:15 |
now these are the kind of threads that still make this site visiting rather than reading about favorite prog guitar solo or some sh*t like that. great thread guys..  Informational as hell Maybe Mandy will whip us us a similar thread for RPI. Say a Roma v. Genova v Napole poll 
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Abstrakt
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 18 2005
Location: Soundgarden
Status: Offline
Points: 18292
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Posted: July 21 2007 at 03:50 |
- Berlin
- Munich
- Cologne
- Hannover
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20514
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Posted: July 21 2007 at 08:10 |
micky wrote:
now these are the kind of threads that still make this site visiting rather than reading about favorite prog guitar solo or some sh*t like that.
great thread guys.. Informational as hell
Maybe Mandy will whip us us a similar thread for RPI. Say a Roma v. Genova v Napole poll
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 GREAT IDEA, MICKY!!!!
I was about to propose this was done for a few other countries, but one has to remain in a given decade.
Might as well start with Italy!!!
Heve a few more clappies!!!
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
|
|
BaldFriede
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 02 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10266
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Posted: July 21 2007 at 09:02 |
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Cologne, because of the studios of Can, Conny Plank and Dieter Dierks. Even the Berlin bands came to the studios of Plank and Dierks.
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 BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20514
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Posted: July 21 2007 at 09:33 |
BaldFriede wrote:
Cologne, because of the studios of Can, Conny Plank and Dieter Dierks. Even the Berlin bands came to the studios of Plank and Dierks. |
And accessorily, this is where our favorite couple lives and rocks
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
|
|
micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46838
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Posted: July 21 2007 at 09:37 |
Sean Trane wrote:
micky wrote:
now these are the kind of threads that still make this site visiting rather than reading about favorite prog guitar solo or some sh*t like that.
great thread guys.. Informational as hell
Maybe Mandy will whip us us a similar thread for RPI. Say a Roma v. Genova v Napole poll
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GREAT IDEA, MICKY!!!!
I was about to propose this was done for a few other countries, but one has to remain in a given decade.
Might as well start with Italy!!!
Heve a few more clappies!!!
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thanks I love clappies hahha..... Raff and I are kicking around bands and cities right now hahha
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: July 21 2007 at 10:00 |
Hemel Hempstead - home of I.E.M. 
Actually, it's difficult to call, unlike Liverpool and San Francisco there isn't a definitive Berlin or Munich sound - it's more like Canterbury which is a regional grouping rather than tonal one. (oh, just discovered I've already voted here - just cannot remember whichone I voted for - probably Berlin)
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What?
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Bilek
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: July 05 2005
Location: Turkey
Status: Offline
Points: 1484
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Posted: July 21 2007 at 11:19 |
Sean Trane wrote:
micky wrote:
now these are the kind of threads that still make this site visiting rather than reading about favorite prog guitar solo or some sh*t like that.
great thread guys.. Informational as hell
Maybe Mandy will whip us us a similar thread for RPI. Say a Roma v. Genova v Napole poll
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GREAT IDEA, MICKY!!!!
I was about to propose this was done for a few other countries, but one has to remain in a given decade.
Might as well start with Italy!!!
Heve a few more clappies!!!
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Kraut is enough for thinking man !
btw, another clappy from me to Bald Friede... Long time no see
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Listen to Turkish psych/prog; you won't regret:
Baris Manco,Erkin Koray,Cem Karaca,Mogollar,3 Hürel,Selda,Edip Akbayram,Fikret Kizilok,Ersen (and Dadaslar) (but stick with the '70's, and 'early 80's!)
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Rivertree
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Band Submissions
Joined: March 22 2006
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 17656
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Posted: July 22 2007 at 06:22 |
A very good thread indeed even for a german fellow. Polling is quite hard but the info which is given within the posts is interesting to read anyhow. I voted for Berlin because of the electronic pioniers around Cluster, Ashra Tempel, Tangerine Dream and the space/psychedelic Agitation Free. Some buddies have also mentioned the special political situation in Berlin. Stommeln is 20 km away from Cologne, belongs to Pulheim and the Cologne region! Nice info about the Essener Songtage 1968, Martin - what a great variety - a program consisting of Dunja Rajter, Degenhardt and Amon Düül. I'm astonished about your eccellent (geographical) knowledge. My problem is that some bands are given by Hugues are not fitting into the PA Krautrock category (Embryo, Kraan, Birth Control, Grobschnitt, Tangerine Dream etc.).  - Sorry - don't want to force a new discussion about multiple subgenres ...
Edited by Rivertree - July 22 2007 at 06:47
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Bilek
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Location: Turkey
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Posted: July 22 2007 at 08:14 |
Rivertree wrote:
My problem is that some bands are given by Hugues are not fitting into the PA Krautrock category (Embryo, Kraan, Birth Control, Grobschnitt, Tangerine Dream etc.).
- Sorry - don't want to force a new discussion about multiple subgenres ...
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Not bringing the multiple subgenres thing (actually I prefer subgenre by album, which is like utopia these days!), just to mention an important point:
All of the bands mentioned above have shown Krautrock characterstics (at least to a certain extent) at a certain point in their career, mostly in the beginning. Seeing that especially Berlin and Düsseldorf schools give birth to the entire prog-electronics genre, it's only natural that Tangerine Dream (and others like Kraftwerk, Klaus Schulze etc.) are lumped into krautrock basket, actully all these started out as the definitive examples of the kraut sound, and then evolved/turned towards/gave rise to other genres...
Novalis or Jane would have been better examples of German bands that are not representatives of Krautrock sound, IMHO And any German band being referred to as kraut is not unusual in musical circles...
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Listen to Turkish psych/prog; you won't regret:
Baris Manco,Erkin Koray,Cem Karaca,Mogollar,3 Hürel,Selda,Edip Akbayram,Fikret Kizilok,Ersen (and Dadaslar) (but stick with the '70's, and 'early 80's!)
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Which city Krautrocked most?
