prog-chick wrote: stonebeard wrote: If I were the musician I'd rather people like my stuff while hearing it illegally than not even knowing about it.   hmmmm........ how would you pay your bills? Or would you live in magic musicians land where you don't get presented with studio bills? tax bills? food bills? gas bills?

E-Dub wrote: Sorry, but there is no defense in downloading music. There was a time when I was a poor college student bringing in about $150 per month with little help from my folks. I even gave up my car to go to college. Sometime one must do without certain luxuries. In my eyes, downloading music illegally is no different than walking into a CD store, sticking a disc in your coat, and walking out without paying. Nobody will convince me differently. E

Trying to get some projects out, so the only thing I can add is Pendragon et al are providing a product that requires a buyer. A buyer who keeps them providing a product. Add up all the people illegally downloading their product, then how can they make a profit, let alone break even? 

As for everybody having expenses: while this is true, how is this Pendragon's fault and why should they be punished? I have a mortgage to pay, but still need clothes for work; so, I'll just run down to Eddie Bauer and lift a button down wrinkle resistant shirt and some khakis. Not trying to be a wise a*s...just making a point.

E

All I know from Nick's latest entry on Pendragon's forum is that he's a man who is hurting. I feel bad for the guy.

A little number crunching per Nick:

OK...so , last week we checked out a few stats for you, and this is where we are . There is a site called Mininova, where you can see the Past And Presence DVD [not cd!!] has been downloaded illegally 810 times [Losing us £17,000 gross before costs if the same people were to buy it from our website].

Given that over all sales of the Past And Presence dvd is probably gonna hit 3,000 copies absolute tops, that is about a quarter of lost sales...on this one site alone!!!
They also show figures of approx 1,400 downloads illegally of Believe,
[Losing us about £14,000 gross if the same people were to buy it from our website] and more on our other albums too. Given that we have sold 18,000 Believes you can see that this makes a big dent in us getting paid, don't forget this is one one site alone!

Some other illegal download stats for you are:
Site x And Now Everybody To The Stage DVD - 1,930 downloads
Site x Believe - 1,291 downloads
Site x Past And Presence DVD - 1,192 downloads
Site y The World - 1,829 downloads
Site z Past And Presence DVD -174

E

^ I certainly feel for him too.  I can positively declare that I have not illegally downloaded any Pendragon material.  On the other hand, I have only purchased 2 of their albums to-date. 

E-Dub wrote: I'm sure there will be cases of this; however, what's wrong with listening to samples and deciding whether or not if it's for you? You try on shoes before you buy them, so music can be the same way. We've become such a 'ME' generation...myself included. I may not illegally download music, but can be egocentric as well. E

Prog isn't the best venue for samples...  I've heard songs with excellent samples, then the album turned out to be rot.  Inversely, I've heard albums with horrid samples, but the album was a masterpiece in the end.

I've got a proposal:  What if bands instead offered an entire show recorded from the soundboard for free (unmastered perhaps, to save costs) on the website, to give listeners an -excellent- idea of the band's sound and music, and then the listener may be quite motivated to not only buy the albums, but attend the concerts as well?  TFK's old site had a bunch of live tracks up, filled with improv, and that played a huge part in my blossoming love for them

They could even use BitTorrent as a method of distribution (it does have many legal applications after all), and include perhaps a pdf file or something with lots of info on the band, so even if the torrent got redistributed, everyone who got this would know exactly where it came from and what its purpose was.  Using BitTorrent would also mean that the band would not have to pay a dime on bandwidth or server space for this multimedia, as the end user would be supporting the traffic load.

To add yet another edit to this post, the text liner included could mention that it's an unmastered soundboard recording, and that if one enjoys it, perhaps a purchase of the band's well-produced live DVD might be warranted. 


Edited by Man Overboard - September 05 2007 at 17:54

Hey E-dub........ I can promise you the new Fish album is incredible!!!!!

Have fun!

E-Dub wrote: prog-chick wrote: Hey E-dub........ I can promise you the new Fish album is incredible!!!!! Have fun! It's killing me!!! I even ordered the deluxe edition with the beautiful artwork by Wilkinson. How does it compare with his other discs? Is it a step up from Field Of Crows? I did get the latest Marillion FRC from the current tour for Somewhere Else recorded in Poland. Man, were the boys on this particular night! I could do without "The Last Century For Man" and replace it with "The Other Half", however. That being said, it's an amazing show so far. I'm always concerned whenever they do "Afraid Of Sunlight" these days because of h's voice cutting out on the high parts that close the song.  On this night he nailed it. E

stonebeard wrote: The point is, if you work hard and still can't afford the money to buy a CD, I have no problem with you downloading it (call it stealing, I don't care), because either way, the artist making the record has two options:   1) Not getting the money for the album because the person cannot afford it.   2) Not getting the money for the album because the person cannot afford it, but they at least listened to it from a download, and your fanbase is likely strengthened.   Choose your option. Either way, you're not going to get the money.   If people have the money, then the situation is irrelevant. But expecting people to work enough to support their college expenses, living necessities, and also their "new music desire," is unrealistic. If I were the musician I'd rather people like my stuff while hearing it illegally than not even knowing about it.   If Pendragon performs a concert near me, I'll fork over so much cash to see them, but like so many Euro prog bands, they don't have the fanbase or the funds. Now if everybody bought all of their stuff legally, they'd have a lot more cash and could probably make the trip to the USA, but they'd still not come where I am.

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