1) I will definitely but the album from the band so they get more of the cash directly (God knows they need it)

 

2) I hope the cover doesn't have a naked dude on it so I can get a shirt that won't make me seem insecure with a naked dude's bum for all to see.

 

3) It's gonna freakin' rock! I just hope nick continues with the direction Believe brought instead of reverting back to something like The Masquerade Overture (as much as I like it) and Not of this World (too "thick" a sound, IMO).

 

 

Totally agree with you on the 3rd point, Stonebeard. I too think they should carry on in a similar, more diverse vein as they did on 'Believe' rather than reverting to type (Incidentally, over on Progressive Ears last week there was a lot of praise for 'Believe'). I think 'The Masquerade Overture' was a masterpiece but 'Not Of This World' was a bit formulaic, imho of course. However, it's hardly a bad album.

 

As for my top 3, 'The Masquerade Overture', 'Believe' and 'The Window Of Life'.

 

Nick keeps saying that that downloading is like stealing, and in most cases it is. But you have to realize that many people wouldn't spend the money on a CD anyway, so there would be no money going into Nick's pocket at all, instead of it being taken out. A poor college student probably shouldn't spend $18 on a CD when they don't have to. I love Pendragon, so I will buy Pure, or whatever it's called when it's released, but don't blame the person, blame the circumstances. Some people, of course, aren't in such circumstances, so they deserve the blame, but I would never be too upset at a student with little spare money getting my CD, as long as they don't put it up on a torrent site.

 

1) Not getting the money for the album because the person cannot afford it.

 

2) Not getting the money for the album because the person cannot afford it, but they at least listened to it from a download, and your fanbase is likely strengthened.

 

Choose your option. Either way, you're not going to get the money.

 

If people have the money, then the situation is irrelevant. But expecting people to work enough to support their college expenses, living necessities, and also their "new music desire," is unrealistic. If I were the musician I'd rather people like my stuff while hearing it illegally than not even knowing about it.

 

If Pendragon performs a concert near me, I'll fork over so much cash to see them, but like so many Euro prog bands, they don't have the fanbase or the funds. Now if everybody bought all of their stuff legally, they'd have a lot more cash and could probably make the trip to the USA, but they'd still not come where I am.

 

The only time I have ever downloaded anything, is if the music was not otherwise commercially available, and chances were slim that it would ever become commercially available, such as unreleased demos and things like that.  However, even for the stuff I have downloaded, if it ever became commercially available, I would buy it commercially.  We are all poor at some point in our lives, well unless you happen to have been born rich, and we all have to make choices.  Whether or not a student would otherwise have bought the album if he/she could not download it, is irrelevant.  If you are unwilling to pay for an album, you don't have the right to have the album. 

 

It is especially upsetting for me when we are talking about prog bands, because these people are living on the knife's edge as it is.  I'm sure Nick isn't getting filthy rich off of Pendragon, rather he is probably struggling to keep the band alive and every person who downloads his music without paying for it is helping to bankrupt prog rock bands like his. 

 

This is the challenge of the modern prog band. Without a large fanbase, the musician may not be able to continue putting out material. But regular people have expenses too. And would I be wrong in saying CD/LP prices in the 70s/80s were much less than their equivalent now. In that case, people would be able to more easily buy music. $14-18 for a CD is a lot more than $10-11.

prog-chick wrote: stonebeard wrote: If Pendragon performs a concert near me, I'll fork over so much cash to see them, but like so many Euro prog bands, they don't have the fanbase or the funds. The Pendies are exploring the idea of a US tour next year, obviously they can't play in everyone's back yard, (as much as I am sure they'd love to!!!)as to lack of funds...... well, lets return to the original issue shall we??? Downloading damages all aspects of music. When folk buy the cd's a band can see where there fan base is, and tour accordingly, if it's nicked then you have little chance of seeing them, they don't know who you are, where you are, and the funds are lacking.

Too true, but we already know touring is so hard for prog bands, and I'm willing to bet this is one of the more primary reasons Pendragon is in debt. Studio time is not that expensive (and I think Nick has a home studio anyway), pressing CDs, etc cost probably a good chunck of the cash, but imagine the costs of putting on a tour! Of course, to me it doesn't matter if they tour much because I can't see them because they haven't yet come in range. For the record, I've bought everything I have from Pendragon, so they know where I am!

prog-chick wrote: stonebeard wrote: but they'd still not come where I am. .......ach Stonie, don't be so defeatist! ............. where are you? P-C

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I'm not trying to convince you of anything, although not being open to any discussion is never a good thing. Downloading seems black and white, but if you think about how I described the situation, you can see that there it's not always as clear cut as stealing vs buying.

 

My other thought on this matter, which may or may not be any better or more practical, is to purchase CDs with friends with similar tastes.  If 4 friends each have enough money to buy 1 CD, then you can buy 4 CDs and loan/trade them to each other.  It probably isn't that much better than illegal downloading, since only 4 CDs have been purchased instead of 16 CDs, but 4 is still better than the none or 1 that may have been purchased, or 0 if they were illegally downloaded.  Of course, it might be highly unpractical for anyone to actually have 4 friends who also listen to prog music.

Funny how the vast majority of prog fans say out loud they are fans of music and musicians, yet they slowly but surely murder their favorite artists... One day it will be too late, nobody will record music anymore, and the waves of the world will be filled with insipid products and these so-called fans will wonder what went wrong with the wonder that is music...  To quote Steven WIlson : "One of the wonders of the world is going down, it's one of the blunders of the world that no one cares..."

 

My response to this would be is that he is portraying a worse-case scenario.  Of all of the above illegal downloads, what percentage of people would have actually bought or listened to their music if they didn't download it illegally.  There are probably a good portion of people who download anything they can get their hands on and would never have bought a Pendragon album anyhow.  On the other hand, there may have been a portion of these people who were listening to Pendragon for the first time who may have then gone out and legitimately purchased that album or video or other Pendragon albums or videos because of that illegal download.  Thinking the best of human nature this is possible, and for members of PA, even likely, but knowing the worst of human nature this is probably not likely.  Having absolutely no idea who were doing these illegal downloads, it may have been Harry Potter fans or fans of the origin of the name Pendragon, who were curious to see what this band was, listened to it 1 time, said "yuck, this doesn't sound like Britney Spears", and never listened to it again.

 

FYI, I am somewhat playing devil's advocate, since I absolutely agree with your analogies about illegally downloading. 

 

Ugh! I must possess the new Fish cd.   More money to spend.  Of course, I could always illegally download it. 

The question is, how many people are downloading a Pendragon DVD because they can't afford to buy it (in which case how did they afford the DVD player?) and how many are downloading it when they CAN afford it but are too mean to shell out the cash?