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Topic ClosedAnnouncing the Prog-Metal split

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TheProgtologist View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 22 2007 at 21:11
Originally posted by keiser willhelm keiser willhelm wrote:

Originally posted by Proletariat Proletariat wrote:

Originally posted by keiser willhelm keiser willhelm wrote:

could you let me know about my earlier quesiton, townsend opeth and co. chillin with the post metalers?
 Look at the defonition. They fit under Art Metal

oops overlooked. thanks Smile .  hmmm i  dont know.  maybe we need to split up the new sub genres. . .  some are a little broad.
 
2 years ago when we first started this we had like 6-7 subs,but it was just a little too much,imo.
 
We felt that 99.9% of the bands in the archives in PM could fit comfortably in these three,but like I said earlier,there are a few bands that are hard to define.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2007 at 01:00
Clap
 
The bios look great, and the split is gonna help me out a lot. Virtually every band I'm interested in has been filtered into the two new categories Smile. If I were to suggest anything, it would be to add "art metal" into the name of the post/experimental category, to make it more clear why bands such as opeth and tool are included.


Edited by Sckxyss - October 23 2007 at 01:49
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2007 at 01:48
This why I don't use genres in my music programs, it gets way too messy after a while...
http://www.last.fm/user/Avantgardian
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2007 at 01:56
Originally posted by TheProgtologist TheProgtologist wrote:

Originally posted by keiser willhelm keiser willhelm wrote:

Originally posted by Proletariat Proletariat wrote:

Originally posted by keiser willhelm keiser willhelm wrote:

could you let me know about my earlier quesiton, townsend opeth and co. chillin with the post metalers?
 Look at the defonition. They fit under Art Metal

oops overlooked. thanks Smile .  hmmm i  dont know.  maybe we need to split up the new sub genres. . .  some are a little broad.
 
2 years ago when we first started this we had like 6-7 subs,but it was just a little too much,imo.
 
We felt that 99.9% of the bands in the archives in PM could fit comfortably in these three,but like I said earlier,there are a few bands that are hard to define.

that was a bad joke. . . Embarrassed
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2007 at 05:00
I still don't agree with it, but I'm not in charge, so let's see if we can't at least have you do it right.

Indukti does not belong in extreme/tech. Experimental/post is a MUCH better home (they borrow a whole lot from post-rock).

While Aberrant Vascular doesn't contain death vocals, it can get fairly technical. Fits the avant-garde descriptor in the extreme/tech section.

Alethian seems like extreme/tech to me. Prog tech death. In fact, the descriptor was practically made for them.

A symphonic/operatic division would work well, really, since we have the likes of Rhapsody, Adagio, Nightwish, Epica, et cetera. Especially with the aforementioned Aberrant Vascular.

...and Blind Guardian somehow got inserted in the mix; remove it.TongueLOL

Wait, more seriously, who the hell added Star One? There is no justification for that. Arjen created for the express purpose of having a straightforward metal band. Next thing you know, someone's going to throw in Amorphis, and I'm going to monumentally displeased.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2007 at 05:11
A round of applause for the prog metal team, I think this move was a long time coming, there was simply too much variation between bands in the prog metal genre I mean between Dream Theater, Isis and Atheist there aren't many similarities besides the fact they play a heavy form of progressive music.

I also think that the new genres cover the vast majority of prog metal bands in the best way possible, I'm particularly pleased with the extreme/tech subgenre, wow and it seems the vast majority of my prog metal reviews fall in that genre, I don't even have any for experimental/post metal.


Edited by FruMp - October 23 2007 at 05:21
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2007 at 08:03
Originally posted by TheProgtologist TheProgtologist wrote:

Originally posted by Proletariat Proletariat wrote:

Originally posted by keiser willhelm keiser willhelm wrote:

could you let me know about my earlier quesiton, townsend opeth and co. chillin with the post metalers?
 Look at the defonition. They fit under Art Metal
 
Thanks for clarifying that.There are a few bands that are just really hard to pin down to one genre.
 
Do you think Tool are tech/extreme or "classic" prog metal ala DT?
 
Opeth is another really difficult one,they aren't purely tech/extreme(don't let the growls mislead you),so we can't put them there.
 
The definitions might need a little tweaking,and so bands might get misplaced and after some talk,debate and feedback could get placed elsewhere.
 
Please be patient everyone...Rome wasn't built in a day.
I found Tool in Experimental Metal category. I'm much comfortable tagging them as together with DT.
I agree with your views about Opeth.
So far so good.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2007 at 08:19
^ Of course if one were to make a top 20 list of the best, most popular and influential bands of prog metal that list would contain both Dream Theater and Opeth. But does that mean they have to be in the same genre? If you look at the great Prog Rock bands you'll also find that they're scattered across many genres.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2007 at 08:29
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ Of course if one were to make a top 20 list of the best, most popular and influential bands of prog metal that list would contain both Dream Theater and Opeth. But does that mean they have to be in the same genre? If you look at the great Prog Rock bands you'll also find that they're scattered across many genres.
Opeth and DT in the same genre? No. I meant Tool and DT Mike.Big%20smile
 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2007 at 08:35
I'm all for the split.  It may be confusing at first, but in the long run, it will improve our understanding of the music and the differences between the genres.
"Information is not knowledge. Knowledge is not wisdom. Wisdom is not truth. Truth is not beauty. Beauty is not love. Love is not music. Music is THE BEST."
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2007 at 08:35
^ my bad ... but what I said also makes sense for DT/Tool.

BTW: Even with this split it will still be possible to build a page which lists all the bands. So the desire to have a top list which features both DT, Tool (and Opeth) should not be a reason to be against the split. It's also currently not possible to have both King Crimson and Genesis appear in a "key albums" list for a genre ...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2007 at 08:41

Got your point mate.

Noted.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2007 at 08:50
^ please continue to post your thoughts ... the whole split is not carved in stone yet, and we (the team) will continue to discuss, weigh considerations, move bands back and forth until we finally reach a point where we consider it done. We also need a moment to let the new situation "sink in", browse the new categories and try to determine whether things feel right.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2007 at 12:26
I'll give you a clip across the ears if you change things now, the genres suit very well.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2007 at 12:40
Someone mentioned Indukti to the Experimental/Post metal section, I agree with this and also I would send Tool there for the obvious similarities between the two bands (Tool seem to be THE major influence on Indukti) IMO.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2007 at 13:22
Originally posted by Proletariat Proletariat wrote:

Originally posted by rileydog22 rileydog22 wrote:

Originally posted by Proletariat Proletariat wrote:

Ok, love it now here are some bands that you might want to look into their placement (not trying to be a jurk just want to see evrything in its correct place)
 
Ved Buens Ende
Wintersun
Gojira
 
These should probably be moved to Tech/Extreme


Here we go.....
sorry, they are just some of my favourite bands and so naturally they stook out as being in the wrong genre, really I dont give a f***** what genre this site puts bands in, I just wanted to help a little bit. Even read their bios, they stick out like a sore thumb
 
Ved Buens Ende - Tech/Extreme? Definitely not.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2007 at 14:50
Excellent, a good move guys. I appreciate your efforts in making a great site even better! There's certainly enough diversity in Prog Metal to warrant such changes.
 
Would this move allow for the introduction of bands who may have been on the fringes of the scope of Prog Archives. Metallica for example whilst primarily a Thrash Metal band, at least in their early days have had quite a few epics over their albums. Master of Puppets being an obvious example.


Edited by Nightfly - October 23 2007 at 14:58
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2007 at 14:56
Originally posted by andu andu wrote:

Congratulations to the team, great work! I have recently found some prog-metal to my tastes, and the new system will help me in making follow-ups. Smile Thanks!

I add my congrats. And a big hand for the idea to include or rather describe "mini" sub-genres for each of the three to help better define them. I don't suppose that other existing genres might receive this treatment. The new Art Rock divisions could maybe use that sort of sub-division for clarifications.
"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2007 at 15:58
Originally posted by Nightfly Nightfly wrote:

Excellent, a good move guys. I appreciate your efforts in making a great site even better! There's certainly enough diversity in Prog Metal to warrant such changes.
 
Would this move allow for the introduction of bands who may have been on the fringes of the scope of Prog Archives. Metallica for example whilst primarily a Thrash Metal band, at least in their early days have had quite a few epics over their albums. Master of Puppets being an obvious example.
 
Sorry but no.Our addition standards do not change one bit because of this,and we didn't create these sub-genres to allow bands on the fringe to be included in the archives.
 
Also...M@x gave a very definite and implicit NO for the possible addition of Metallica so that means case closed and let's move on,they won't ever be here.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2007 at 16:01
Originally posted by TheProgtologist TheProgtologist wrote:

Originally posted by Nightfly Nightfly wrote:

Excellent, a good move guys. I appreciate your efforts in making a great site even better! There's certainly enough diversity in Prog Metal to warrant such changes.
 
Would this move allow for the introduction of bands who may have been on the fringes of the scope of Prog Archives. Metallica for example whilst primarily a Thrash Metal band, at least in their early days have had quite a few epics over their albums. Master of Puppets being an obvious example.
 
Sorry but no.Our addition standards do not change one bit because of this,and we didn't create these sub-genres to allow bands on the fringe to be included in the archives.
 
Also...M@x gave a very definite and implicit NO for the possible addition of Metallica so that means case closed and let's move on,they won't ever be here.
 
No AC/DC either? Huh huh huh, heh heh heh, etc. etc. etc.
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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