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The Dark Elf 
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Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
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 Posted: March 12 2011 at 22:02 |
 Dean wrote:
Surely it is the artist and their management's decision on how and where they should promote their material. If they don't want to use YouTube then that is their choice and their loss if people can't discover the arttists material by that route. Anyone not connected to the artist has no right or remit to arbitarily decide to publish on YouTube or a Blog a promo video or use a song as the soundtrack to an amateur slideshow (however well thought out, constructed or presented it may be).
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And I agree with you in regards to it being the artist's decision. I merely question the logic.
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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AtomicCrimsonRush
Special Collaborator
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Joined: July 02 2008
Location: Australia
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Points: 14258
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Posted: March 12 2011 at 22:08 |
Dean wrote:
The Dark Elf wrote:
Actually, I have been a proponent of having all songs available on youtube for quite some time. As you know, I use youtube clips on my blog quite often when discussing important albums or great songs, and get quite irritated when I can't locate a specific version of a song for an article. As far as I'm concerned, my blog is giving free advertising for the music I am discussing, particularly since I rarely discuss music I dislike (and I wouldn't waste time offering a youtube clip of a song I despised, in any case). I've gotten plenty of feedback from readers who love the songs and go out and purchase the artist's music.
It seems to me ludicrous when every Beatles, Pink Floyd, Tull, Led Zeppelin and Genesis song is available on youtube, but such artists as Bob Dylan, The Eagles and Bruce Springsteen do not have any of the studio versions of their songs available. Why? Does Sony Music feel they haven't gouged enough money out of fans? Or, like Greg Lake, do these pompous performers feel that their artistic rights have been compromised? Illegal Downloading is one thing, but checking out a band you've never heard before and finding a lost or hidden gem more often than not leads to increased record sales.
I don't have any statistics to go on, but I know from a personal standpoint that youtube has led me to purchase CDs (many CDs); therefore, I have to believe that a large percentage of music listeners do the same thing. You certainly can't find good music on the radio anymore (unless perhaps you subscribe to Sirius), and if you're looking for something obscure, youtube is the best place to go. |
Surely it is the artist and their management's decision on how and where they should promote their material. If they don't want to use YouTube then that is their choice and their loss if people can't discover the arttists material by that route. Anyone not connected to the artist has no right or remit to arbitarily decide to publish on YouTube or a Blog a promo video or use a song as the soundtrack to an amateur slideshow (however well thought out, constructed or presented it may be).
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And just to follow up so there is no misunderstanding, out of sheer courteousy I contacted each of those artists above in the youtube clips to make sure they were OK with it. They were more than happy for me to post them. If i removed my Roundabout clip for Yes, it would make little difference as there are hundreds, however i would be only too happy to contact the band but how do you do that? It would take forever to contact these big names and I doubt they would care one iota.
Out of interest what if someone posted a clip of your music, Dean, would that upset you or would you be happy someone took the time to do it as they genuinely liked your music?. Just inquiring.
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: March 13 2011 at 03:58 |
AtomicCrimsonRush wrote:
Out of interest what if someone posted a clip of your music, Dean, would that upset you or would you be happy someone took the time to do it as they genuinely liked your music?. Just inquiring. |
I would need to be asked first or I would be very upset. I put a lot of time and effort into the two little CoL films I put on YouTube as I consider those to be part of my "Art" as much as the music and cover artwork are. If someone wanted to use my music I would have to see a portfolio of their work beforehand so I could decide for myself whether it complimented mine, and only then would I agree.
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What?
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: March 13 2011 at 05:19 |
The Dark Elf wrote:
And I agree with you in regards to it being the artist's decision. I merely question the logic. |
Okay, it just seems odd that you would berate Sony for gouging money out of fans in the same breath as condemning them for not using free advertising that would boost sales.
I suspect what we are witnessing on YouTube with Sony is not Sony or their artists removing copyright audio, but YouTube themselves so they don't compete with the official YouTube/Sony channel and hence bugger-up the Google Ad revenue stream and any corporate boardroom deals struck between them. I'm not condoning either corporation for doing this, but both are in the business of maximising profits and they are doing what big corporations will do, therefore what seems like questionable logic to you is sound business practice for them. This is evident in the blocking-by-country of much of the Sony content, which is as much to do with how Google/YouTube target advertsing and collect revenue as it is for Sony's desire to control what content can be seen in each country. Proof of this will come in the near future when (not if) YouTube introduce pay-per-view on selected content.
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The Dark Elf
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 13056
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Posted: March 13 2011 at 08:16 |
Dean wrote:
The Dark Elf wrote:
And I agree with you in regards to it being the artist's decision. I merely question the logic. |
Okay, it just seems odd that you would berate Sony for gouging money out of fans in the same breath as condemning them for not using free advertising that would boost sales. |
I see no contradiction there. Merely pointing out perceived pettiness, in a pennywise, dollar foolish manner.
Dean wrote:
I suspect what we are witnessing on YouTube with Sony is not Sony or their artists removing copyright audio, but YouTube themselves so they don't compete with the official YouTube/Sony channel and hence bugger-up the Google Ad revenue stream and any corporate boardroom deals struck between them. I'm not condoning either corporation for doing this, but both are in the business of maximising profits and they are doing what big corporations will do, therefore what seems like questionable logic to you is sound business practice for them. This is evident in the blocking-by-country of much of the Sony content, which is as much to do with how Google/YouTube target advertsing and collect revenue as it is for Sony's desire to control what content can be seen in each country. Proof of this will come in the near future when (not if) YouTube introduce pay-per-view on selected content. |
You could be right, but I believe it's Sony blocking the videos and not YouTube (the Sony Logo on the deletion notice leads me to believe it).
In any case, if YouTube goes pay-per-view, it will be unfortunate but not really unexpected. I will not use it. In many cases, I've paid for CDs and albums once already. I will find another avenue for online research.
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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The Dark Elf
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 13056
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Posted: March 13 2011 at 08:21 |
Dean wrote:
AtomicCrimsonRush wrote:
Out of interest what if someone posted a clip of your music, Dean, would that upset you or would you be happy someone took the time to do it as they genuinely liked your music?. Just inquiring. |
I would need to be asked first or I would be very upset. I put a lot of time and effort into the two little CoL films I put on YouTube as I consider those to be part of my "Art" as much as the music and cover artwork are. If someone wanted to use my music I would have to see a portfolio of their work beforehand so I could decide for myself whether it complimented mine, and only then would I agree. |
Just slap the band's album cover up on the screen and play the song already! I rarely watch the videos anyway. It's the song I want to hear. I've seen enough windblown fields, red sunsets and ocean vistas for Christ's sake. Youtube gets to be like a travel channel after a while. 
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: March 13 2011 at 08:42 |
The Dark Elf wrote:
Dean wrote:
AtomicCrimsonRush wrote:
Out of interest what if someone posted a clip of your music, Dean, would that upset you or would you be happy someone took the time to do it as they genuinely liked your music?. Just inquiring. |
I would need to be asked first or I would be very upset. I put a lot of time and effort into the two little CoL films I put on YouTube as I consider those to be part of my "Art" as much as the music and cover artwork are. If someone wanted to use my music I would have to see a portfolio of their work beforehand so I could decide for myself whether it complimented mine, and only then would I agree. |
Just slap the band's album cover up on the screen and play the song already! I rarely watch the videos anyway. It's the song I want to hear. I've seen enough windblown fields, red sunsets and ocean vistas for Christ's sake. Youtube gets to be like a travel channel after a while. |
Ah right. So you've watched my videos then 
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What?
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: March 13 2011 at 08:58 |
The Dark Elf wrote:
Dean wrote:
The Dark Elf wrote:
And I agree with you in regards to it being the artist's decision. I merely question the logic. |
Okay, it just seems odd that you would berate Sony for gouging money out of fans in the same breath as condemning them for not using free advertising that would boost sales. |
I see no contradiction there. Merely pointing out perceived pettiness, in a pennywise, dollar foolish manner. |
Sony are not foolish or petty, nor are they naive. Neither are any of the other artists and labels that dislike unsolicited use of their material on YouTube or anywhere else. All of them put a lot of thought and effort into marketting, including the use of (fake) word-of-mouth, street-teams, and viral advertising - do you really think they would ignore such an obvious outlet for petty reasons?
The Dark Elf wrote:
Dean wrote:
I suspect what we are witnessing on YouTube with Sony is not Sony or their artists removing copyright audio, but YouTube themselves so they don't compete with the official YouTube/Sony channel and hence bugger-up the Google Ad revenue stream and any corporate boardroom deals struck between them. I'm not condoning either corporation for doing this, but both are in the business of maximising profits and they are doing what big corporations will do, therefore what seems like questionable logic to you is sound business practice for them. This is evident in the blocking-by-country of much of the Sony content, which is as much to do with how Google/YouTube target advertsing and collect revenue as it is for Sony's desire to control what content can be seen in each country. Proof of this will come in the near future when (not if) YouTube introduce pay-per-view on selected content. |
You could be right, but I believe it's Sony blocking the videos and not YouTube (the Sony Logo on the deletion notice leads me to believe it).
In any case, if YouTube goes pay-per-view, it will be unfortunate but not really unexpected. I will not use it. In many cases, I've paid for CDs and albums once already. I will find another avenue for online research. |
Now you're puzzling me - if you've paid for the albums why would you want to listen to them on YouTube while looking at a badly pixelated scan of the cover?
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The Dark Elf
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 13056
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Posted: March 13 2011 at 09:10 |
Dean wrote:
Now you're puzzling me - if you've paid for the albums why would you want to listen to them on YouTube while looking at a badly pixelated scan of the cover? |
I guess some of the essence of what I was discussing got lost in these circumlocutionary forum discussions. 
I use Youtube videos on my blog when discussing albums or specific songs. They help punctuate the articles and add dimension to the particular music I am discussing. They give emphasis and a point of reference, aiding readers who have never heard the particular song or album.
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
|
Posted: March 13 2011 at 09:42 |
The Dark Elf wrote:
Dean wrote:
Now you're puzzling me - if you've paid for the albums why would you want to listen to them on YouTube while looking at a badly pixelated scan of the cover? |
I guess some of the essence of what I was discussing got lost in these circumlocutionary forum discussions.
I use Youtube videos on my blog when discussing albums or specific songs. They help punctuate the articles and add dimension to the particular music I am discussing. They give emphasis and a point of reference, aiding readers who have never heard the particular song or album. |
I see. Do you think your content suffers from not having links to the appropriate YouTube video of what you are discussing? Or more importantly, does it make your text of any less value to the reader? If you are discussing a particular track then your thoughts and opinions are what is going to motivate the reader into following the link (if one exists) if he hasn't heard the track before (if they have then there is little point following it I would have thought) - it seems to me that I get more from your review of Brain Salad Surgery here on the PA than I do from your blog entry for it (which links to three WMG "removed" videos btw).
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What?
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The Dark Elf
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 13056
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Posted: March 13 2011 at 10:03 |
Dean wrote:
I see. Do you think your content suffers from not having links to the appropriate YouTube video of what you are discussing? Or more importantly, does it make your text of any less value to the reader? If you are discussing a particular track then your thoughts and opinions are what is going to motivate the reader into following the link (if one exists) if he hasn't heard the track before (if they have then there is little point following it I would have thought) - it seems to me that I get more from your review of Brain Salad Surgery here on the PA than I do from your blog entry for it (which links to three WMG "removed" videos btw). |
Merely added emphasis and a point of reference -- an extra bit of sensory stimulus like the album covers, rather than just another internet list. Is it of value? I think so, and readers do seem to appreciate the extra effort, based on e-mails and comments I received. It is unfortunate that the ELP tracks have been deleted, but the markers for the songs still remain even if (as you so kindly pointed out) the video has been removed.
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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