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Topic Closed''Union''. It's terrible . . . really?

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JLocke View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: ''Union''. It's terrible . . . really?
    Posted: February 27 2010 at 12:40
Okay, so I have avoided Yes' ''Union'' album for years now, because virtually every account I have heard involving hearing it has been bad. Even all the band members hate it, as far as I know. At least with TFTO, the internal opinions were split, a bit. The most classic criticism I have heard is when Bill Bruford referred to the record as ''Ghastly''. LOL

Now . . . I have recently heard a couple of tunes from this 'dreadful' album, and . . . well . . . call me crazy, but it's not as bad as I was expecting.

Sure, what I have heard so far does indeed sound quite over-produced, echoey and full of pop stylings, but at the same time, the musicianship, song length and overall presentation struck me as much more complex and challenging than either of the prior Yes-west albums. I suppose that has something to do with ABWH teaming up with them for this effort.

So what say you? Is this album really as horrible as they say? Or has it gotten crucified unfairly? 

Keep in mind, I haven't come close to hearing every song on this album, so i still don't have an opinion one way or the other; that's why I'm asking for opinions on here. I came across this album at a flea market last year. I'm debating whether or not to head down and see if it's still there. For a couple of bucks, I think I might as well try it out.

Let the opinions be heard. 


Edited by JLocke - February 27 2010 at 12:41
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2010 at 12:43
I prefer Open Your Eyes to Union.

Union is Yes's only one star album to me.  Everything about it is cheesy, overblown, and completely forgettable (except "Masquerade").

Scott rushfan4 likes the album though, I believe. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2010 at 12:44

Union is another one of those albums that I didn't know I was suppose to hate until I joined ProgArchives.  But my tastes are poppier than most, so I guess that is just me being me.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2010 at 12:51
^ Well, I'm a 90125 fan, and I listen to the best of pop music from time to time, so perhaps I should give this one a chance?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2010 at 12:57
All Yes studio albums from 1987 till 1999 are bad, the rest has to do with differentiating.

I personally find Talk most excruciating, but that's actually a project that could have shined.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2010 at 12:57

As the saying goes, it is always best to judge for one's self.  I'm pretty sure that you can probably find it pretty cheap in a bargain bin somewhere.  I always see Magnification in the really cheap bargain bin, and it makes me sad since it is such an excellent album.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2010 at 12:57
For what it's worth, I think 90125, Big Generator, and Talk are great albums.  I loathe Union.

You may like it, and if you get it cheap, go for it!  I mean, worst case scenario, you can write a one star review, right?  LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2010 at 13:02
^ True. LOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2010 at 13:19
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

For what it's worth, I think 90125, Big Generator, and Talk are great albums.  I loathe Union.

You may like it, and if you get it cheap, go for it!  I mean, worst case scenario, you can write a one star review, right?  LOL


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2010 at 14:04
I love 90125, and I'm less enthusiastic about Big Generator and Talk but they do have their moments. For me Union is a level less good, though. They should have avoided to make this album the way they did. Read: they shouldn't have let a producer and a record company take so much control. My least favourite of all the Yes albums I heard.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2010 at 18:15
As most progheads (at least I suppose so), I am open to practically all musical genres, therefore I don't judge a band by its name but by its material. And I must admit I quite like 'union', there are some flaws but overall it's a decent album.

Edited by lucas - February 27 2010 at 18:16
"Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2010 at 18:17
I have to agree with Lucas on this one. Union is by no means a masterpiece, but it's a rather pleasant listen, if you don't expect CTTE-like quality. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2010 at 18:27
That, along with Open Your Eyes (and maybe Big Generator), are the only Yes albums that I would give 1 star.

-Jeff

Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 27 2010 at 23:05
I don't find the album so very terrible either. The West Line-up songs sound just like that, so if you liked 90125 and Big Generator, this should be decent at least. As far as I know, most of the music from the ABWH songs aren't really played by Howe in the final mix, he got replaced by one Jimi Haun by the producer and Anderson. I think many of Ricks parts got replaced too. Suposedly both Howe and Wakeman were most apathic and uninterested in the project. However, in the end, I do love two tracks from this album: "Shock to the System" and "The More we Live, Let go"; and "I Would Have Waited Forever I like a lot too". The rest are at least listenable and even enjoyable up to a point.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2010 at 01:03
I like Shock To The System, I play it regularly. The rest is simply forgettable. A bad ABWH if you will.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2010 at 01:49
It's mixed bag. I'm a huge Yes fan and I listened to it more than 20 times before I knew what I felt about it. (Unike Epignosis, Open Your Eyes is the only Yes album I haven't been able to listen to ridiculous amounts yet). It has some really good songs, and some songs that make me wonder how they could be by Yes. I would definitely consider it a 2 star (fan only) album, but it does have some nice songs, some of the better ones from Yes' poppy era. (That being said, I much prefer the versions I've managed to find played live during the tour, but there's nothing officially released from that tour yet).

My thoughts:
Good tracks: Masquerade, Lift Me Up, Without Hope You Cannot Start the Day, The More We Live - Let Go, Take The Water To the Mountain

Painful tracks: Saving My Heart, I Would Have Waited Forever. (okay, I just don't get Yes "love" songs. I've got nothing against love songs; I just don't think Yes is very good at them :) )

Honourable Mention: Angkor Wat (cool atmosphere, fails to deliver what it feels like it could have)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2010 at 01:52
Originally posted by TheGazzardian TheGazzardian wrote:

It's mixed bag. I'm a huge Yes fan and I listened to it more than 20 times before I knew what I felt about it. (Unike Epignosis, Open Your Eyes is the only Yes album I haven't been able to listen to ridiculous amounts yet). It has some really good songs, and some songs that make me wonder how they could be by Yes. I would definitely consider it a 2 star (fan only) album, but it does have some nice songs, some of the better ones from Yes' poppy era. (That being said, I much prefer the versions I've managed to find played live during the tour, but there's nothing officially released from that tour yet).

My thoughts:
Good tracks: Masquerade, Lift Me Up, Without Hope You Cannot Start the Day, The More We Live - Let Go, Take The Water To the Mountain

Painful tracks: Saving My Heart, I Would Have Waited Forever. (okay, I just don't get Yes "love" songs. I've got nothing against love songs; I just don't think Yes is very good at them :) )

Honourable Mention: Angkor Wat (cool atmosphere, fails to deliver what it feels like it could have)

Probably the most informative and helpful post yet. Thanks you! Clap
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2010 at 03:13
Define over-produced.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 28 2010 at 20:50
Union would have profitted greatly by being cut down to a single album.  There are some real gems here.  The first half of it is pretty good if you skip Saving My Heart..  The second half is at best forgettable.
For what it's worth, this is probably the album I listen to most from the Rabin period.


Edited by ghost_of_morphy - February 28 2010 at 20:54
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 01 2010 at 12:20
I had really lost interest in following Yes after 90210 so much to the point that I skipped Big Generator entirely and still haven't heard it.  Union came in on the heels of AWBH and I was starting to get interested again in Yes.  Saw them for the last time to date on that tour.  It was an interesting idea but didn't yield great results.  Maybe if they'd just included Peter Banks in the effort... Tongue
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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