Author |
Topic Search Topic Options
|
greenback
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: August 14 2004
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 3300
|
Topic: the peak year of a musician Posted: May 15 2007 at 01:37 |
everybody reaches a performance peak in his life.
some are hard to find when, but others are easy.
which musician comes to your mind, what instrument and what year?
phil collins - drums - 1976
|
[HEADPINS - LINE OF FIRE: THE RECORD HAVING THE MOST POWERFUL GUITAR SOUND IN THE WHOLE HISTORY OF MUSIC!>
|
|
andu
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 27 2006
Location: Romania
Status: Offline
Points: 3089
|
Posted: May 15 2007 at 01:45 |
This somehow reminds me of a brilliant verse that I can't get out of my head: "The memories of a man in his old age/Are the deeds of a man in his prime"...
I won't name some artists, but I'll throw this observation: doesn't it seem interesting to you how in rock music the creativity peak is at a much younger age than in other genres that are more academic? I mean, in classical music the older/more mature you get, the better your works are (of course taking account of the several notable exceptions); on the other side, in rock many musicians peak at 18-25 years and very rarely equal at the age of 40-50 years their deeds from their prime. I've been thinking about this for some time without finding a decent answer.
|
|
SirPsycho388
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 09 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 697
|
Posted: May 15 2007 at 01:46 |
bill bruford - drums - 1974
|
Strangers passing in the street by chance two separate glances meet and I am you and what I see is me. And do I take you by the hand and lead you through the land and help me understand the best I can
|
|
darkshade
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: November 19 2005
Location: New Jersey
Status: Offline
Points: 10964
|
Posted: May 15 2007 at 02:19 |
Frank Zappa (guitar and compostionally IMO) - 1972-1975
|
|
|
Certif1ed
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 08 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 7559
|
Posted: May 15 2007 at 02:48 |
andu wrote:
This somehow reminds me of a brilliant verse that I can't get out of my head: "The memories of a man in his old age/Are the deeds of a man in his prime"...
I won't name some artists, but I'll throw this observation: doesn't it seem interesting to you how in rock music the creativity peak is at a much younger age than in other genres that are more academic? I mean, in classical music the older/more mature you get, the better your works are (of course taking account of the several notable exceptions); on the other side, in rock many musicians peak at 18-25 years and very rarely equal at the age of 40-50 years their deeds from their prime. I've been thinking about this for some time without finding a decent answer. |
That's because classical musicians spend a huge amount of time studying and training before they realise that the best way to play is not to think about it.
Rock musicians don't think about it from the start - but they soon come to realise that they haven't learnt much, try to expand on a non-solid base, and find that their non-musicianly background is their undoing.
*from generalisms "R" Us...
|
The important thing is not to stop questioning.
|
|
fuxi
Prog Reviewer
Joined: March 08 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 2461
|
Posted: May 15 2007 at 03:07 |
SirPsycho388 wrote:
bill bruford - drums - 1974 |
'74? Maybe! But he definitely peaked again in 2001, with THE SOUND OF SURPRISE, followed by the amazing live album FOOTLOOSE AND FANCY FREE!
|
|
darkshade
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: November 19 2005
Location: New Jersey
Status: Offline
Points: 10964
|
Posted: May 15 2007 at 03:28 |
for me, jazz muscians get better with time all the way until they die (or quit/switch styles)
|
|
|
Rocktopus
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 02 2006
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 4202
|
Posted: May 15 2007 at 03:48 |
I'm no musician, so its just based on tastes and instinct:
- Simon House / violin - 70 (High Tide) - Teddy Lasry / flute (sax) - 70 (Magma) - Jaki Liebezeit / drums - 72 (Can) - Didier Malherbe / saxes, flute - 74 (Gong)
- Pierre Moerlen / drums, percussion - 74 (Gong) - Michi Dei Rossi / drums, percussion - 74 (Le Orme) - Giulio Capiozzo / drums, percussion - 74 (Area) - Patrick Gauthier / keyboards - 78 (Weidorje/Heldon)
|
Over land and under ashes
In the sunlight, see - it flashes
Find a fly and eat his eye
But don't believe in me
Don't believe in me
Don't believe in me
|
|
Easy Livin
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: February 21 2004
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 15585
|
Posted: May 15 2007 at 03:53 |
Perhaps some commentary on the nominations? It would make the threrad more interesting.
|
|
darkshade
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: November 19 2005
Location: New Jersey
Status: Offline
Points: 10964
|
Posted: May 15 2007 at 04:04 |
^ ^ ^ i mentioned Zappa, so i guess ill explain
in the 60's, Zappa was doing extremely experimental things with the original Mothers' lineups. in '69 Zappa began fully realizing his interest in melding jazz and rock (waaayyy before most jazz-rock classic bands and artists even thought about it, except maybe Miles Davis) and recorded Hot Rats, one of his most popular and celebrated works. pretty much from there he did a lot of jazz-rock/fusion mixed with rock, classical, and funk. in 72 he recorded Waka/Jawaka and The Grand Wazoo, which are fusion classics and praised on this site. As a guitarist he was developing into a monster and his improvs were so unique. He then formed the next installment of the Mothers which had great guys like George Duke, Napoleon Murphy Brock and Ruth Underwood (who went back as far as some of the early Mothers' albums like Uncle Meat) the albums that came out between 72 and 75/76 are among his freshest and exquisite albums he ever released, some being some of the greatest jazz-rock albums (and he came from the rock/avant-guarde side of music)
|
|
|
Rocktopus
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 02 2006
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 4202
|
Posted: May 15 2007 at 04:11 |
Easy Livin wrote:
Perhaps some commentary on the nominations? It would make the threrad more interesting. |
You're right, but I don't know what to write. Except that the albums they contributed on those specific years contains my favorite playing by all of them. I feel that its their peaks, but don' t really have the language to tell you why.
|
Over land and under ashes
In the sunlight, see - it flashes
Find a fly and eat his eye
But don't believe in me
Don't believe in me
Don't believe in me
|
|
Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65521
|
Posted: May 15 2007 at 04:15 |
Certif1ed wrote:
andu wrote:
on the other side, in rock many musicians peak at 18-25 years and very rarely equal at the age of 40-50 years their deeds from their prime. I've been thinking about this for some time without finding a decent answer. |
That's because classical musicians spend a huge amount of time studying and training before they realise that the best way to play is not to think about it.
Rock musicians don't think about it from the start - but they soon come to realise that they haven't learnt much, try to expand on a non-solid base, and find that their non-musicianly background is their undoing.
*from generalisms "R" Us... |
I've heard it say that because the hands and hand/brain coordination is better in one's 20s, that's why so many great players peak young.. but this wouldn't explain people like Stephane Grappelli or Allan Holdsworth, so I'm not sure.
Edited by Atavachron - May 15 2007 at 05:46
|
|
fuxi
Prog Reviewer
Joined: March 08 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 2461
|
Posted: May 15 2007 at 05:20 |
Easy Livin wrote:
Perhaps some commentary on the nominations? It would make the threrad more interesting. |
Well, as far as Bruford is concerned: the things he does on those 2001 albums are just as exciting as anything he did with Yes, Crimso or his own electric band. Perhaps even more so! I guess people are absolutely right when they point out that musicians get better with age. (But with too many rockers, the problem is there's too little to develop. Once they've given all they've got, in maybe four or five essential albums, there's nothing left to say...)
|
|
Anthony
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 08 2006
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 774
|
Posted: May 15 2007 at 05:33 |
David Gilmour - Guitar - 1975
(Roger Waters - bassguitar - always a lowpoint)
|
Future prosperity lies in the way you heal the world with love
(Introitus - The hand that feeds you)
|
|
toolis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 26 2006
Location: MacedoniaGreece
Status: Offline
Points: 1678
|
Posted: May 15 2007 at 05:47 |
as a player, Mark Zonder blew my mind with A Pleasant Shade Of Gray (1997).. just watch the DVD and you'll understand...
also, Roger Waters reached the top twice, with The Wall (1979) and Amused To Death (1994)..
The Wall cause: http://www.progarchives.com/Review.asp?id=76799 and Amused.. cause it is the best anti-war concept ever...
Edited by toolis - May 15 2007 at 06:03
|
-music is like pornography...
sometimes amateurs turn us on, even more...
-sometimes you are the pigeon and sometimes you are the statue...
|
|
Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
|
Posted: May 15 2007 at 06:04 |
Steve Hackett......now
Bill Bruford.........now
|
|
|
fuxi
Prog Reviewer
Joined: March 08 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 2461
|
Posted: May 15 2007 at 06:12 |
Snow Dog wrote:
Steve Hackett......now
Bill Bruford.........now
|
NOW you're talking!
|
|
Certif1ed
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 08 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 7559
|
Posted: May 15 2007 at 07:00 |
Atavachron wrote:
Certif1ed wrote:
andu wrote:
on the other side, in rock many musicians peak at 18-25 years and very rarely equal at the age of 40-50 years their deeds from their prime. I've been thinking about this for some time without finding a decent answer.
|
That's because classical musicians spend a huge amount of time studying and training before they realise that the best way to play is not to think about it.
Rock musicians don't think about it from the start - but they soon come to realise that they haven't learnt much, try to expand on a non-solid base, and find that their non-musicianly background is their undoing.
*from generalisms "R" Us... |
I've heard it say that because the hands and hand/brain coordination is better in one's 20s, that's why so many great players peak young.. but this wouldn't explain people like Stephane Grappelli or Allan Holdsworth, so I'm not sure.
|
Without doing any particular research, it would make sense that maybe left-brain (or whichever side is the creative one) to physical activity connectors respond more quickly when young - but without right-brain (or the logical centre), it's going to dry up pretty quickly once the limits have been reached.
If you train the logical centre to think rationally and learn the rules, then, once you've nailed the hand/brain co-ordination bit, it only gets better as the rules begin to sink in.
At least, that's my take on it - I'm older than 20, and did a lot of studying from age 4 upwards - although mainly not on the guitar - and my guitar playing has definitely not reached its peak, as I find I'm still learning new things all the time because my creative drive is probably stronger than it was back then, and I'm driven to try new things all the time.
It certainly holds true when you consider Grappelli, with his rigourous training - and Holdsworth also received training from his father - so there's evidence to suggest that my theory holds some water - and when you consider that Mozart was trained by his father at the age of 4, and was both writing and performing well before he hit double figures, this side of the equation seems proven.
It's the other side that's more interesting - untrained rock musicians who remain at their prime.
I can't think of many...
|
The important thing is not to stop questioning.
|
|
paolo.beenees
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 30 2007
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 1136
|
Posted: May 15 2007 at 07:18 |
Niccolò - Guitar 2027 (he's my nephew, you'll see!)
|
|
|
zbida
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 16 2006
Location: Poland
Status: Offline
Points: 748
|
Posted: May 15 2007 at 07:39 |
My proposition:
Bryan Ferry (hmm, rare mentioned here ) - first half of '80's - creativity: Avalon, Boys And Girls.
|
|
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.