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moshkito 
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Joined: January 04 2007
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 Posted: May 25 2013 at 12:34 |
 HolyMoly wrote:
Get all excited and go to a yawning festival.
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I can easily tell you, that ... there was very little yawning at the Fillmore in those days, and I bet that at the UFO, the same thing was happening! We went, because it was worth it. And the trips were always exciting and worth while, though some folks did not like dance and theater in a weird mix (Incredible String Band), other times, you saw this guy play a sitar for 30 minutes by himself (Ravi), and then you saw the Grateful Dead do a 6 hour show, and at least one piece an hour long ... and no one ever thought they were that bad! I can tell you that I never thought that Andres Segovia was boring when he played a piece that was 25 minutes long, by himself, and non-stop! Or Toots Thielman's and his chromatic harp, took off on a jazz club and had everyone gushing at the end of 30 minutes ... with just as many tears, as laughs as swooning moments in the music ... Go ahead ... yawn ... good night to you! Some still think that the music sounds better when you're stoned, or ripped, or drunk, and the truth is ... there is no difference ... except ... do you want to trip or not? Most of us are too lazy to enjoy something for 10 minutes, sex included, I suppose! And now, I have to go read about Heather Graham's 1 hour orgasm ... way more interesting than progressive music I keep thinking! Or fun for that matter!
Edited by moshkito - May 25 2013 at 12:37
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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verslibre
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Posted: May 26 2013 at 17:04 |
moshkito wrote:
Most of us are too lazy to enjoy something for 10 minutes, sex included, I suppose! And now, I have to go read about Heather Graham's 1 hour orgasm
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Say what now? I have to open another browser window...   I haven't seen Boogie Nights for ages. Maybe it's time for a refresher. 
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uduwudu
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Joined: July 17 2007
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Points: 2601
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Posted: May 27 2013 at 06:15 |
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Just noticed the DK thread. Am only occasionally on PA so mea culpa. Read a bit about this outfit years ago. Bought Live at Orion's and New Dark Age. Then I had to decide what next, so got the lot. Then Ascension. Probably one of those coincidences... I occasionally write a tune and had one recorded way back that was like the first part of Ascension's opener.
Must find some $ to get the rest some time. I see there are new additions to the old catalogue as well as some recent ones i have known about.
Fantastic band with great atmospheres. Favourites are hard but The Devouring just hits my notes. Honestly there are so many bands (PT included) that had they existed in e.g. 1975 would have been world famous. Of course being an instrumental band makes mainstream break through a bit of a challenge.
Interesting memory - listening to Burning The Hard City when a colleague suggested I watch some telly. Something interesting was happening to NYC on that day in Sept. 2001.
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Slartibartfast
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Posted: May 29 2013 at 04:23 |
That's kind of funny, I started out with Night For Baku. Wasn't so much that I had a problem deciding what to get next, I just liked that one so much that I raided the catalog.
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Siloportem
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Joined: April 14 2005
Location: Netherlands
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Posted: July 11 2013 at 11:46 |
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Just read "The Barsoom Project" by Larry Niven and Steven Barnes. Mentioned (and I suppose featured) in this book is a horror writer named HP Lovecraft and a story/novel by him: at the mountain of madness
There's also a reference to a city.
Is this what burning the hard city is about? Or just the song at the mountain of madness?
So hard to tell with instrumental albums.
Can anyone confirm this?
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Thanks !! Your topics always so good and informative. I like you talk.
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moshkito
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Joined: January 04 2007
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Points: 18061
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Posted: July 11 2013 at 12:53 |
Siloportem wrote:
Just read "The Barsoom Project" by Larry Niven and Steven Barnes. Mentioned (and I suppose featured) in this book is a horror writer named HP Lovecraft and a story/novel by him: at the mountain of madness
There's also a reference to a city.
Is this what burning the hard city is about? Or just the song at the mountain of madness?
So hard to tell with instrumental albums.
Can anyone confirm this?
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You'll have to ask Gayle about that ... but it is possible and then again, not possible.
I never made that connection at all ... and just listen to it for what it is ... and as far as I am concerned, this band is another master writer and story teller as anyone else out there in the last 50 years! It matters not to me if it has a connection to anything or not.
I feel like we have to ask one man what he meant when he said the father and I are one ... the important part is that the meaning and medium came to you and you brought it out in a form that you can understand. Where it came from might not make any sense to you, or me, at all!
That's just me, though. I find I do not need a justification for things to happen ... sometimes, things happen and sometimes they don't ... and music, or any of the arts, are one of the best places for this immediacy, that we lack in our lives, and have to have a dose of, in order to feel more complete.
I don't look "out" to find out "their" inspiration ... I look "in" to find mine, knowing that theirs is different.
That we may reach a similar spot or meeting ground as Gayle said in his email that "You got it!" about my review, to me only means, that he knows I can shut up the internal dialogue long enough to live another experience ... and this was what the old days, wanted to help you learn, until it was all drugs and nothing else, which is when it got loud and obnoxious, and commercial!
For me!
Edited by moshkito - August 24 2013 at 13:56
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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Siloportem
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 14 2005
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 216
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Posted: July 11 2013 at 13:32 |
moshkito wrote:
Siloportem wrote:
Just read "The Barsoom Project" by Larry Niven and Steven Barnes. Mentioned (and I suppose featured) in this book is a horror writer named HP Lovecraft and a story/novel by him: at the mountain of madness
There's also a reference to a city.
Is this what burning the hard city is about? Or just the song at the mountain of madness?
So hard to tell with instrumental albums.
Can anyone confirm this?
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You'll have to ask Gayle about that ... but it is possible and then again, not possible.
I never made that connection at all ... and just listen to it for what it is ... and as far as I am concerned, this band is another master writer and story teller as anyone else out there in the last 50 years! It matters not to me if it has a connection to anything or not.
I feel like we have to ask one man what he meant when he said the father and I are one ... the important part is that the meaning and medium came to you and you brought it out in a form that you can understand. Where it came from might not make any sense to you, or me, at all!
That's just me, though. I find I do not need a justification for things to happen ... sometimes, things happen and sometimes they don't ... and music, or any of the arts, are one of the best places for this immediacy, that we lack in our lives, and have to have a dose of, in order to feel more complete.
I don't look "out" to find out "their" inspiration ... I look "in" to find mine, knowing that theirs is different. That we may reach a similar spot or meeting ground as Gayle said in his email that "You got it!" about my review, to me only means, that he knows I can shut up the internal dialogue long enough to live another experience ... and this was what the old days, wanted to help you learn, until it was all drugs and nothing else, which is when it got loud and obnoxious, and commercial!
For me! |
I agree with you in the sense that it should be aprreciated and enjoyed on its own. But when I'm very much into something (and I love that album) then I want to know anything about it. You're very right about Djam Karet being master storytellers. Some of those albums are almost like books made of music instead of words.
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Thanks !! Your topics always so good and informative. I like you talk.
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infandous
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Posted: July 11 2013 at 13:55 |
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Personally, I don't really see any connection, other than the fact that Gayle must have read some Lovecraft. The song Mountains of Madness doesn't really conjure up the story for me, though I'm not sure any music really could (Lovecraft may have been tone deaf, and it was known to people that knew him that he hated music......something I also find hard to imagine). I've read everything Lovecraft wrote (not just the stories, but non-fiction and poetry as well) and I don't see any connection between that album title, "Burning the Hard City" and Lovecraft's works.
Still, I think you'd have to ask the band members themselves to know for sure. Regardless of any connections, it's an incredible album.
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verslibre
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Posted: July 11 2013 at 14:05 |
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Chuck and Gayle (at the very least) are fans of Harlan Ellison and Philip K. Dick, and "At The Mountains Of Madness" is surely a Lovecraft tribute piece. I'm fairly certain "Burning The Hard City" is not, though "Feast Of Ashes" may or may not be.
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Siloportem
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Joined: April 14 2005
Location: Netherlands
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Posted: July 11 2013 at 14:55 |
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Thanks for the info guys.
I have read very little Lovecraft myself, so I can't compare.
But I did pick up on a lot of references to his work in all kinds of movies, books games.
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Thanks !! Your topics always so good and informative. I like you talk.
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Vibrationbaby
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Joined: February 13 2004
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Points: 6898
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Posted: July 11 2013 at 16:35 |
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I just enjoy their freaked out vibes and don't try and read anything into it really.
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moshkito
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Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
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Posted: July 13 2013 at 12:01 |
Siloportem wrote:
...
You're very right about Djam Karet being master storytellers.
...
Some of those albums are almost like books made of music instead of words.
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To this day ... mark my words ... this is what has made "progressive music" important. If you don't get it, or don't understand it, it gets wasted! Sometimes, the cleverness and talent is too strong to not be appreciated, but still, it thrives, despite it being pasted by rock critics that wouldn't know their music tastes from their farts ... or freebies they can get!
ITCOTKC is not the best this and that without it's "story" and very obvious political statements about the time ... if it were anything else, it probably would be trivial and not as interesting! And the same thing goes for many of them. But then, you can stop at Caravan, and their luyrics? ... some satire, some fun, some weirdness ... and not meaningful beyond some fun in them!
But generally, all the great ones, has strong meanings and their work, for me, is no different than literature, art, or anything else at the time ... they were the best of the time span ... second to none.
And the bizarre thing, is that there are people that go around saying that "progressive" died 30 years ago, and they can not hear something like this, or Herd of Instinct, and appreciate ... what music has done in 40 years ... it never died! We lost the ability to listen! ... or as a poet used to say ... gotta get stoned! Which these days I would amend ... you don't need to get stoned, but could use a new perspective!
This, however, makes room for other things ... like you get Dream Theater doing a whole concept called Octavarium, or something else ... and we wonder what the connections are ... which is good ... but "hiding" the meaning of things, is usually the sign of an insecure "vision-maker" ... who has to deceive his public for monetary gains ... or some form of commerciality!
An artist is ... by definition ... a story teller, right from the start!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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Djam Karet
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Posted: August 23 2013 at 18:42 |
Howdy, Gayle here. I was just reading around here a bit. A lot of our song titles are vague and a bit confusing. Burning The Hard City was recorded while we were at war with Iraq (the first time), so that was a strange and aggressive time.
Anyway, when you don't have lyrics ... then you don't have an easy time coming up with a title!
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HolyMoly
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Posted: August 23 2013 at 18:50 |
Hey Gayle, good to see you here!
Speaking of song titles, I was just thinking a while ago how perfect a title "Dark Clouds, No Rain" is for that piece on Suspension and Displacement. It really conjures up the perfect mental picture to go with the music.
I'm still trying to figure out what "Grooming the Psychosis" entails, but that's one hell of a song too.
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It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased.
-Kehlog Albran
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verslibre
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Posted: August 23 2013 at 20:31 |
Djam Karet wrote:
Howdy, Gayle here. I was just reading around here a bit. A lot of our song titles are vague and a bit confusing. Burning The Hard City was recorded while we were at war with Iraq (the first time), so that was a strange and aggressive time. Anyway, when you don't have lyrics ... then you don't have an easy time coming up with a title! |
Hey, Gayle, cool to see you on here! Been a while since I last talked to you (at The Press at a DK gig). I missed the Pomona concert, but rest assured I won't miss any of the SoCal 2014 dates!
The Trip is killer! And the album art is genius, IMO. Who came up with it?
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Slartibartfast
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Posted: August 24 2013 at 07:04 |
Just got the new album and was listening to it on the way home yesterday. Of course I like it. Thanks for dropping in Gayle. OK so far my favorite is the second track  heheheheheheh
Edited by Slartibartfast - August 24 2013 at 10:27
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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moshkito
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Posted: August 24 2013 at 14:26 |
Djam Karet wrote:
Howdy, Gayle here.
I was just reading around here a bit.
A lot of our song titles are vague and a bit confusing.
Burning The Hard City was recorded while we were at war with Iraq (the first time), so that was a strange and aggressive time.
Anyway, when you don't have lyrics ... then you don't have an easy time coming up with a title!
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Thx Gayle ... glad to see you here, but I hope that we don't start asking for Freudian Analysis of the work of the band!
As you already know, I tend to define and study the "improvisational" side of things and have written many detailed studies of it. Some folks here like it, some don't, but it is fun to see people define an improvisation with a set beat or time for it, which from a film/stage design, would defeat the purpose of the exercise. As you said before to me on a mail, you might start with an A or a B, and end up with a Z!
You might enjoy some of the writings on this in the "Improvisation" thread.
I was about to write something else about your latest album for fun, and get folks all shook up! ... and I thought that creating an invisible connection to "The Trip" about Ken Kesey (the film) would be a lot of fun ... and of course, when the drums start is when the bus revs up the motor! For fun, of course!
Edited by moshkito - August 24 2013 at 14:37
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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moshkito
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Posted: August 24 2013 at 15:04 |
verslibre wrote:
Chuck and Gayle (at the very least) are fans of Harlan Ellison and Philip K. Dick, and "At The Mountains Of Madness" is surely a Lovecraft tribute piece. I'm fairly certain "Burning The Hard City" is not, though "Feast Of Ashes" may or may not be. |
You know something funny, or weird?
I think I even told them that when I heard one of their albums ... it was the album that was a tribute to Pinhas and Fripp ... that I did not hear them much ... I heard Djam Karet!
In many ways, you could say that sometimes I get into it so much, that I can see the colors and the feel, and the influence is not important to the listener. It might be to the player, but that is many times a very different thing, since what I see and you see are two different things ... they may have similarities ... but even the color perceptions are different!
I'm a writer. I see this happening to me every day ... wake up and the story wants this and that to happen ... three hours later, when I sit at the computer writing it ... it's totally different ... and for ME ... this is NEAT AND FAR OUT ... though it makes for more incomplete pieces, since you have no idea where they will end, or where they will go, and tomorrow a different feeling takes over.
But that is the exciting part of being an artist ... seeing that inner movie come and go ... making you think of Michelangelo and everything else ... and in the end ... it's none of the above or below ... it's just how the chips fell on the floor and you accidentally stepped on them!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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AnimalOrigin
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Joined: August 15 2017
Location: NY
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Posted: August 15 2017 at 13:19 |
Joined the forum just to join the Djam Karet fan club! It's absurd how little mention this band gets.
I have listened obsessively to their first half dozen albums (through Ascension, I guess). The songs on A Night for Baku didn't thrill me; very heavy in some parts for no clear reason, and increased synth use. And they seemed to lose the plot with Recollection Harvest; the drama of their earlier songs was just missing.
Any die-hard fans who understand this feeling, and can comment on the later albums?
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AFlowerKingCrimson
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Posted: August 15 2017 at 14:52 |
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After 30 plus years DK still don't get the respect they deserve.
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