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Points: 17493 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2012 at 18:26
Originally posted by RoyFairbank RoyFairbank wrote:

Originally posted by RoyFairbank RoyFairbank wrote:

Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Again, trying to look smart by sounding smart and philisophical doesn't make you smart Roy. You most likely are, but you don't need to try so hard while at the same time still managing to not say anything of substance. You're preaching. You're philosophizing. You're not answering, you're not arguing, you're not discussing. You were presented with facts but never dared actually talk about those real issues. Remember, it IS possible to do a good critique of libertarianism, based curiously on some of the things that are lost amidst that pile of self-gratifying verbiage you just used. 


Agreed.

"Facts are simple and facts are straight, facts are lazy and facts are late, facts all come with points of view, facts don't do what I want them to" - David Byrne (Crosseyed and Painless)

"The Grid always provides facts, but facts don't always reveal the truth" - Pete Townshend (Psychoderelict)

This is the kind of bullsh*t we Libertarians have to deal with. As we know, facts are not dependent on political orientation. There is a world of facts, you can't just nominate certain ones to give the appearance that one thing or another is true. It either is true, or it isn't true, you have to go by the facts. We can cite actual acts of economic intervention by Harding, Coolidge and Hoover, therefore, their entire administrations were qualitatively anti-free market, a complete negation of capitalism as it should rightfully be. The mechanisms of capitalism had no way to function through the incredible gravitational weight of the interventions of the Harding, Coolidge and Hoover Administrations. The fact that capitalist states have used interventionist measures is absolute factual certainty that capitalism has been repressed in a decisive way. These facts are incontestable, and when you have these facts on hand, there is only one conclusion, the factual conclusion. Philosophy has no place in the determination of facts.


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Points: 32552 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 13 2012 at 19:08
Originally posted by Epignosis Epignosis wrote:

Originally posted by RoyFairbank RoyFairbank wrote:



President Hoover (Republican), refuses to intervene, saying Government's place is no interference

Result: Great Depression becomes horrendous mess until FDR interferes with Big Business.




I have to call you out on this.

Originally posted by Steven Horowitz Steven Horowitz wrote:


Politicians and pundits portray Herbert Hoover as a defender of laissez faire governance whose dogmatic commitment to small government led him to stand by and do nothing while the economy collapsed in the wake of the stock market crash in 1929. In fact, Hoover had long been a critic of laissez faire. As president, he doubled federal spending in real terms in four years. He also used government to prop up wages, restricted immigration, signed the Smoot-Hawley tariff, raised taxes, and created the Reconstruction Finance Corporation—all interventionist measures and not laissez faire. Unlike many Democrats today, President Franklin D. Roosevelt's advisers knew that Hoover had started the New Deal. One of them wrote, "When we all burst into Washington ... we found every essential idea [of the New Deal] enacted in the 100-day Congress in the Hoover administration itself."

Hoover's big-spending, interventionist policies prolonged the Great Depression, and similar policies today could do similar damage. Dismantling the mythical presentation of Hoover as a "do-nothing" president is crucial if we wish to have a proper understanding of what did and did not work in the Great Depression so that we do not repeat Hoover's mistakes today.



http://www.cato.org/publications/briefing-paper/herbert-hoover-father-new-deal

And if you don't believe that, then here is Wikipedia: 

Quote
When the Wall Street Crash of 1929 struck less than eight months after he took office, Hoover tried to combat the ensuing Great Depression with volunteer efforts, public works projects such as the Hoover Dam, tariffs such as the Smoot-Hawley Tariff, an increase in the top tax bracket from 25% to 63%, and increases in corporate taxes. These initiatives did not produce economic recovery during his term, but served as the groundwork for various policies laid out in Franklin D. Roosevelt's New Deal.






Originally posted by RoyFairbank RoyFairbank wrote:


Agreed.The mechanisms of capitalism had no way to function through the incredible gravitational weight of the interventions of the Harding, Coolidge and Hoover Administrations.



History isn't a Choose Your Own Adventure novel, you know.
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Points: 29630 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 14 2012 at 16:34
Gingrich Renting Out His Donor List in Desperate Attempt to Raise Cash LOLLOLLOLLOLLOL
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Points: 1072 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 14 2012 at 16:58
Originally posted by Slartibartfast Slartibartfast wrote:

Gingrich Renting Out His Donor List in Desperate Attempt to Raise Cash LOLLOLLOLLOLLOL


It is surprising that Republican candidates have had trouble raising money, other than Romney. Still it looks as if the Republicans will once again be unable to match the fundraising undertaken by the Democrats in the presidential campaign. Obama appears to be a safer investment for Wall Street than Republican "moderates" like Romney and McCain. [1] [2]



2008 Fundraising Data From USA TODAY
***Note That Data Ends On Oct 19, 2008, so final figures for both candidates would be higher.




Edited by RoyFairbank - April 14 2012 at 17:04
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Romney, GOP seek $50,000 for jointSmoke fundraising committee Tongue
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Points: 29630 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 20 2012 at 17:27
Odds on Willard's Running Mate
 courtesy of Bovada,  Twitter: @BovadaLV

Who will be the Republican Vice Presidential Nominee?  

Marco Rubio                              5/2
Rob Portman                            5/2   Possible - he has to pick an unknown.
Chris Christie                             9/1
Paul Ryan                                 9/1
Bob McDonnell                       10/1  I think he'll pick "Bob's for Jobs" McDonnell
Susana Martinez                        15/1
Condoleezza Rice                      18/1
Rick Santorum                           18/1
Rand Paul                                 20/1
Mitch Daniels                            20/1
John Thune                               20/1
Bobby Jindal                              25/1
Tim Pawlenty                            25/1
Nikki Haley                               25/1
Jeb Bush                                   30/1
Newt Gingrich                           50/1
Ron Paul                                  50/1
Sarah Palin                               50/1
Herman Cain                            100/1
Donald Trump                          100/1

Will Mitt Romney appear in an episode of Saturday Night Live in 2012?    

Yes                  -115
No                    -115

Jimmy Shapiro, Sports Publicist

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Points: 29630 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2012 at 07:52
Rejected Romney campaign slogans
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Points: 34550 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2012 at 15:11
Well...the madness continues.
Despite everything we've heard apparently Ron Paul has, really, won Minnesota.

Also he's, really, won, Colorado.

This sh*t makes no sense lol
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Points: 1072 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2012 at 16:28
Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:

Well...the madness continues.
Despite everything we've heard apparently Ron Paul has, really, won Minnesota.

Also he's, really, won, Colorado.

This sh*t makes no sense lol


Checklist of the American voter

1. Complain About The Dearth Of Attention Given To Favored Impossible Candidate
2. Reject Verbally Both Candidates Who Have Been Preordained To Be The Real Candidates For President
3. Vote For One Of The Preordained Candidates as a "Lesser Evil"
4. Complain About Voted In Candidate, While Said Candidate Maso-Sadistically Screws Voter With His Total Mandate
5. Find An Impossible Candidate To Favor
(6. Back to One)
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Points: 4335 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2012 at 18:40
Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:

Well...the madness continues.
Despite everything we've heard apparently Ron Paul has, really, won Minnesota.

Also he's, really, won, Colorado.

This sh*t makes no sense lol
 
 
As always, it's about delegates.  These, and many other states, have a meaningless primary/caucus before the real delegate selection takes place at conventions.  Paul's groundgame has been stronger than that of Obamney and it has been showing at the conventions.  One of two things has been happening, as a result: Paul delegates have been selected, without incident, on the strength of their numbers or entrenched establishment hacks have disregarded their own rules and pushed corrupt delegate slates without the support of the majority attending.  To fully understand the process one needs to check the delegate selection rules for each individual state.  I hope that Equality has familiarized himself with the names of the campaign's delegates in his congressional district, here in PA.


Time always wins.
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Points: 34550 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2012 at 19:00
Originally posted by RoyFairbank RoyFairbank wrote:

Originally posted by JJLehto JJLehto wrote:

Well...the madness continues.
Despite everything we've heard apparently Ron Paul has, really, won Minnesota.

Also he's, really, won, Colorado.

This sh*t makes no sense lol


Checklist of the American voter

1. Complain About The Dearth Of Attention Given To Favored Impossible Candidate
2. Reject Verbally Both Candidates Who Have Been Preordained To Be The Real Candidates For President
3. Vote For One Of The Preordained Candidates as a "Lesser Evil"
4. Complain About Voted In Candidate, While Said Candidate Maso-Sadistically Screws Voter With His Total Mandate
5. Find An Impossible Candidate To Favor
(6. Back to One)


Nah I started stopping after #2 a couple of years ago.
I'm done voting for the lesser evil, even if it "my guy" will get 7 votesLOL
Sadly you're wrong anyway. Most people never reach step #1. It's "vote Dem" or "vote GOP" and that's about all the thought usedCry

I just think it's kind of funny MoM..."Where's Ron Paul?" I seem to see plenty of support out there. I know his supporters come out stronger than most, but this whole "fringe" thing is getting a bit annoying.
He's certainly not fringe in his support, been finding more fans of his as time goes on (guess they aren't ALL crazy nutballs that make it known 24/7 like most would believe...whoda thunk it?)



Edited by JJLehto - April 22 2012 at 19:04
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Points: 3281 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2012 at 00:47
So there goes Romney, proudly boasting about how he's going to massively increase military spending while cutting welfare, education, border security, food safety and health.
 
I think we can stick a fork in this guy. This just isn't what a regular voter wants to hear right now.
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Points: 34550 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2012 at 01:42
Originally posted by Textbook Textbook wrote:

So there goes Romney, proudly boasting about how he's going to massively increase military spending while cutting welfare, education, border security, food safety and health.
 
I think we can stick a fork in this guy. This just isn't what a regular voter wants to hear right now.



Aww cmon, are you really saying that is pretty much the opposite of what the majority of Americans want?
Pffffft you silly goose.

But nah, as you said this is obviously so out of touch it's sad.
I mean plenty probably subscribe to the "cut home spending but replace it all with conquering those damn other peoples" but I believe good majorities of Americans have expressed support cutting defense spending over home spending.


Besides with the economy still in malaise and Iraq  the issue that started to sink the GOP it just doesn't make sense.

I hope more people are at least realizing the choice is between: you want that trillion spent here or there?


Edited by JJLehto - April 23 2012 at 01:58
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Points: 29630 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 26 2012 at 07:57

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Points: 3281 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 30 2012 at 22:57
Thought I'd bring this back.
 
I'm sure you've all heard about Romney's "A Better Amercia" hilarity. Still not as funny as him saying:

"I saw my father march with Martin Luther King."
 
and then a little later
 
"I did not see it with my own eyes."
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Points: 15784 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 31 2012 at 10:32
Pointing out a politician for lying is like pointing out a duck for floating. 
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Points: 17493 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 31 2012 at 11:01
It's like a breath of fresh air to know that Romney and Obama will face each other in November. It basically makes life much easier at the polls. 
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Points: 29630 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 31 2012 at 11:10

Don't worry, there will probably be some confusingly worded referendum on your ballot where you won't be quite certain if it's a good thing to vote yes or no on. LOL




Edited by Slartibartfast - May 31 2012 at 13:13
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