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markosherrera 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 01 2006
Location: World
Status: Offline
Points: 3252
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 Posted: June 02 2007 at 12:14 |
 Sean Trane wrote:
markosherrera wrote:
Now some chaveans of goverment want to change the spanish names of cities like Valencia,Merida,Barcelona,Trujillo,San Cristobal,to indians or indigenas names,and make obligatory learn wayu indian language etc,in Venezuela the indians are less of 50 000 in a poblation of 26 000 000 . the Chaveans are against catholics(95%) and want impulse indians and afro religions(the religion of 5% of people),and said that womans dont ought to use towells for menstruation,that is better be poor than rich,that is bad have a car..that is a stupidity study marketing or publicity because it will be not necessary in the future,that the people that dont think like theirs is because are mentally ills,or are delinquents,or dont love the nation,they said comments against people descendents of europeans etc and against jews etc now say that all the poors ought to attack the median and high income people ,if the protest make problems to the revolution etc |
I am going to look it up but I really think you've got your facts wrong here in terms of the indigenous populations including metis/mixed blood and their percentage. >>> don't forget they've never be counted before either, and they're crawling out of the bushes that served as their huts.
The rest of your post is even more questionable (even close to ridicule, no offence meant,  but just read what you've written). If you read such a newspaper that prints that garbage, I can't blame Chavez for closing it down, I'd even support it .
Plus being atheists does not mean being anti-catholics/christians (I add this christian mention because I think Venezuella is losing catholics by the tens of thousands to alternatives) |
Sean I dont read all that I write, I saw AND Listened in TV and radio the discourses of more than 6 hours that Chavez make when he put in obligatory chain all the channels private and not private of my country,and he say all that I write,seems ridicule and garbage but is what he say all the weeks,5 or more times a week in his long discourses.....he is anticatholic,not atheist....hey Sean our population is more a mix of latin whites with blacks,that a mix of indians or pure indians our mix is too different of the mix of Peru,Bolivia,Ecuador,Central america or Mexico perhaps there are less than 30000,search in internet or enciclopedia.Each country of latinamerica is different Uruguay for example dont have indians and less of 5% of black ,argentina have few indians and dont have blacks,trinidad,barbados,jamaica,surinam,have high % of black and hindu people,Bolivia have high % of indian ,few whites and nothing of blacks,Venezuela have a high population from Spain,Portugal,Italy,cHINA,sIRIA,Lebanon and an ample variety of whites mixed with blacks...if you like baseball you can see our big leaguers they represent more or less how are the tipical Venezuelan
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
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Posted: June 02 2007 at 13:09 |
Chavez supported the campaign of Ollanta Humala in Perú with all his money and power, this is Humala:
Ollanta Humala, a former lieutenant colonel in the Peruvian army, finished first in Peru's presidential balloting on Sunday, though he'll face a runoff. He's usually called a nationalist or a populist in the media, but those terms may be concealing something even uglier. I read this in the Washington Post on Monday:
His father, Isaac Humala, is a former professor and communist leader who founded an ultra-nationalist political movement that advocates replacing the European-descended elite in Peru with leaders of indigenous descent.
Hang on - that movement sounds more racialist than "nationalist". I think liberal reporters just can't bring themselves to describe a leftist as a racist, even when accurately describing his views.
Indeed, a little research confirms the racial nature of the Humalas' ideas. Ollanta Humala, his father, and his brother have all been leaders of the Movimiento Etnocacerista, a word that combines ethnic identity with the group's admiration for 19th-century nationalist leader Andres Avelino Caceres.
Peruvian novelist Mario Vargas Llosa has sharply criticized Humala for his racial views. In Wikipedia's translation, he wrote that in Isaac Humala's vision "Peru would be a country where only copper-skinned Andeans would have Peruvian nationality. The rest, white, black or yellow, would only be 'citizens' who would have a limited set of rights."
Humala's campaign promises of redistribution, nationalization, and withdrawal of Peru from the world economy would be bad enough. But even leftists should be embarrassed to find their economic nostrums keeping such company.
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 The Galaxy Trio: Humala (far right) receiving support from Chavez and Morales
But that's not all:
| Peru (where Ollanta Humala will get elected president, his program includes shooting gays, white people, and starting a war with Chile) |
Chavez support was a scandal, used his media to insult all the other candidates and despite the OEA told him to stop participating is foreign elections he continued doing it:
He even threatened the Përuvians if Hulama was not elected:
Chavez said:
| Si por obra del demonio el señor el señor García llega a ser elegido presidente del Perú voy a retirar mi embajador, porque con un presidente así, Venezuela no va a tener relaciones con el Perú"
TRANSLATION
"If by act of the devil Mr Garcia iis elected President of Perú, I'm going to retire the Venezuelan Ambassador, because with that kind of Presaident Venesuela is not going to have relations with Perú
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Of course Humala lost and Chavez did nothing because he needs to keep relationds in Perú to sell us his pseudo revolution
Who in hell is this guy to interfere in our elections?????????
Isn't it casual that Chavez supports Humala who is:
- A Military
- Nationalist (NAZI style)
- Racist
- Anty Gay
- Anti white
- Who is apparently involved in crimes when fighting the terorism
- A man who has offered to be a dictator?
Chavez is a dictator who wants to create a system in all Latin America, when are people going to notice this.
I'm szd for Venezuela, but I don't want Chavez messing in my country business, he's noopdy in Perú,
Freedom from Fujimori has costed us a lot, we don't want to loose it in hands of a foreign dictator..
Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - June 02 2007 at 13:51
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Chus
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: Venezuela
Status: Offline
Points: 1991
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Posted: June 02 2007 at 13:15 |
markosherrera wrote:
Sean Trane wrote:
markosherrera wrote:
Now some chaveans of goverment want to change the spanish names of cities like Valencia,Merida,Barcelona,Trujillo,San Cristobal,to indians or indigenas names,and make obligatory learn wayu indian language etc,in Venezuela the indians are less of 50 000 in a poblation of 26 000 000 . the Chaveans are against catholics(95%) and want impulse indians and afro religions(the religion of 5% of people),and said that womans dont ought to use towells for menstruation,that is better be poor than rich,that is bad have a car..that is a stupidity study marketing or publicity because it will be not necessary in the future,that the people that dont think like theirs is because are mentally ills,or are delinquents,or dont love the nation,they said comments against people descendents of europeans etc and against jews etc now say that all the poors ought to attack the median and high income people ,if the protest make problems to the revolution etc |
I am going to look it up but I really think you've got your facts wrong here in terms of the indigenous populations including metis/mixed blood and their percentage. >>> don't forget they've never be counted before either, and they're crawling out of the bushes that served as their huts.
The rest of your post is even more questionable (even close to ridicule, no offence meant, but just read what you've written). If you read such a newspaper that prints that garbage, I can't blame Chavez for closing it down, I'd even support it .
Plus being atheists does not mean being anti-catholics/christians (I add this christian mention because I think Venezuella is losing catholics by the tens of thousands to alternatives) |
Sean I dont read all that I write, I saw AND Listened in TV and radio the discourses of more than 6 hours that Chavez make when he put in obligatory chain all the channels private and not private of my country,and he say all that I write,seems ridicule and garbage but is what he say all the weeks,5 or more times a week in his long discourses.....he is anticatholic,not atheist....hey Sean our population is more a mix of latin whites with blacks,that a mix of indians or pure indians our mix is too different of the mix of Peru,Bolivia,Ecuador,Central america or Mexico perhaps there are less than 30000,search in internet or enciclopedia.Each country of latinamerica is different Uruguay for example dont have indians and less of 5% of black ,argentina have few indians and dont have blacks,trinidad,barbados,jamaica,surinam,have high % of black and hindu people,Bolivia have high % of indian ,few whites and nothing of blacks,Venezuela have a high population from Spain,Portugal,Italy,cHINA,sIRIA,Lebanon and an ample variety of whites mixed with blacks...if you like baseball you can see our big leaguers they represent more or less how are the tipical Venezuelan |
Exactly, as I said, you have to listen to what Chavez says in Venezuela, not what he says in other continents
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Jesus Gabriel
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Chus
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: Venezuela
Status: Offline
Points: 1991
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Posted: June 02 2007 at 13:23 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Chavez supported the campaign of Ollanta Humala in Perú with all his money and power, this is Humala:
Ollanta Humala, a former lieutenant colonel in the Peruvian army, finished first in Peru's presidential balloting on Sunday, though he'll face a runoff. He's usually called a nationalist or a populist in the media, but those terms may be concealing something even uglier. I read this in the Washington Post on Monday:
His father, Isaac Humala, is a former professor and communist leader who founded an ultra-nationalist political movement that advocates replacing the European-descended elite in Peru with leaders of indigenous descent.
Hang on - that movement sounds more racialist than "nationalist". I think liberal reporters just can't bring themselves to describe a leftist as a racist, even when accurately describing his views.
Indeed, a little research confirms the racial nature of the Humalas' ideas. Ollanta Humala, his father, and his brother have all been leaders of the Movimiento Etnocacerista, a word that combines ethnic identity with the group's admiration for 19th-century nationalist leader Andres Avelino Caceres.
Peruvian novelist Mario Vargas Llosa has sharply criticized Humala for his racial views. In Wikipedia's translation, he wrote that in Isaac Humala's vision "Peru would be a country where only copper-skinned Andeans would have Peruvian nationality. The rest, white, black or yellow, would only be 'citizens' who would have a limited set of rights."
Humala's campaign promises of redistribution, nationalization, and withdrawal of Peru from the world economy would be bad enough. But even leftists should be embarrassed to find their economic nostrums keeping such company.
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The Galaxy Trio: Humala (far right) receiving support from Chavez and Morales
But that's not all:
| Peru (where Ollanta Humala will get elected president, his program includes shooting gays, white people, and starting a war with Chile) |
Chavez support was a scandal, used his media to insult all the other candidates and despite the OEA told him to stop participating is foreign elections he comntinued doing it:
He even threatened the Përuvians if Hulama was not elected:
Chavez said:
| Si por obra del demonio el señor el señor García llega a ser elegido presidente del Perú voy a retirar mi embajador, porque con un presidente así, Venezuela no va a tener relaciones con el Perú"
TRANSLATION
"If by act of the devil Mr Garcia iis elected President of Perú, I'm going to retire the Venezuelan Ambassador, because with that kind of Presaident Venesuela is not going to have relations with Perú
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Of course Humala lost and Chavez did nothing because he needs to keep relationds in Perú to sell us hois pseudo revolution
Who in hell is this guy to interfere in our elections?
Isn't it casual that Chavezz supports:
- A Military
- Nationalist
- Racist
- Anty Gay
- Anti white
- Who is apparently involved in crimes when fighting the terorism
- A man who has offered to be a dictator?
Chavezs a dictator who wants to create a system in all Latin America, when are people going to notice this.
I'm sd for Venezuela, but I don't want Chavez in my country business, he's nobopdy in Perú, Freedom from Fujimori has costed us a lot, we don't want to loose it.
Iván
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He also put Venezuela as neutral state in the fight against the Colombian guerrillas, when it's obvious they're not belligerent but downright terrorists. And yes he also has the fame of interfering in other countries' business, while he gets irritated when another country talks about ours.
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Jesus Gabriel
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20414
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Posted: June 02 2007 at 14:17 |
Ivàn, I still remembered that story, from last time  , but do you honestly think that whatever happened to you happens to everyone there. There are hundreds of thousands of European tourists going to Cuba every year, and unlike when going to Dominican Republic, they can go almost every place and not be agreesed because most cubans are much friendlier than Dominicans, Jamaicans, Haitians
Please no contradict me on this issue, my brother was there last year and a step sister of mine three years ago and their stories are more or less the same. >> Yes the people are fairly hungry and poor , but it is the economy that is dead, precisely because of the embargo happening for the last few decades.
IVNORD wrote:
Now I’ve never experienced the Cuban healthcare system (thank God!) but I vividly remember all benefits of the Soviet one which by default must be superior to the Cuban and which was based not on knowledge and professionalism but on doctor’s compassion or lack of such. You were lucky if the doctor took interest in you since they had no other incentive to do a good job to retain you as a client. How about dentists inflicting pain on patients for the fun of it? Extractin a tooth vs. doing a root canal because it’s cheaper? Wiping your blood with your own handkerchief after a tooth extraction? (if you had none, bad luck). Doctors conducting weird experiments on orphaned infants? The same way it’s available in Canada (or Belgium) for free, so Canadians cross the border to have a surgery in the US instead of waiting for years at home. Don't take everything leftist propaganda says for granted. >>> As I said we don't know any better, whether be you or I. I hear/see sources from documentaries and others TV programs telling us it is so (and this is from people having visited or even living there).
Not about to give those documentaries any less credit than the link you gave (which is US-based when the only thing the US is worried about is doing away with the Castrists. And if anyone tells me the White House is not worried about it everyday, they just had a meeting two days ago with Spain to talk about it and couldn't agree on anything. Bush is pissing himself ten times a day over the Cuban Crisis. Clinton couldn't have cared lass, since it was a Cuban ciggie up Monica's twàt.
Now what these guys write about Venezuelan affairs sounds somewhat familiar. So your threat to investigate markosherrera claims is rather ridiculous than malicious (and I’m saying it amicably) as you appear to be more of an honest victim of disinformation than a promoter of it. >>> Hang on a second I may not live in the country but as stated above I have been there (and all over the Andes) yet the only thing I can tell you is that Amerindians were/are not getting better treatment than the Sioux or the Aborigens from Australia, >>> YET they are people too, they are supposedly citizens. They are voluntarily despised from Conquistador descendence and voluntarily forgotten by the middle class and the Establishment.
Marcos, Chus and Ivàn are all at least middle class, and the first sign of it being that they have Internet access. Something than an estimated 45 millions Indios in South America don't have. It takes once in a while a rocker like Sting to bring some Chief Raonis to world fame (his mostly).
Yes South America might just be facing another tentative upheaval in some (less-than) two decades, unless countries where they are a majority start advancing. In Guatemala, Indios are over 70% of population. I won't look for Ecuador or Bolivia (let you do it ) but my educated guess is somewhere between 40 to 60% of population.
Venezuella's geography is amazingly still completely undiscovered and most likely even Chavez has no real idea of how many Indios there are in his country. But that's his main support and he's getting the majority in every elections, and should there be more, most likely it will be reelected. I read an article a few months ago (I believe it was in A Le Monde Diplomatique-related publications >>> and this THE international French speaking reference) that over 90 % of Venezuellans never saw the Orenoque river from their own eyes or went to see the Tepuis (those amazing plateaus), even from afar. The country's population lives on the coast and the inner land is only for mining companies, ready to exterminates Indios for a few emeralds, manganese, beauxites and Germanium >>> this last material is extremely rare and much needed in electronics and the Silicon valley is considering this as theirs. >>> that's a reality too.
Although some things they say sound bizarre, I wouldn’t be surprised to learn they are real. Don’t you think they know it better living in the country vs you reading it on the internet? Regardless of their political stance. I am profoundly sorry for what’s happening to them. I personally wouldn’t resort to protest and fighting, but it’s just me. It emanates from my deep apathy and cynicism towards politics and power. But I don’t question their best intentions. >> I wouldn't want to appear anyless sorry for then and their country (I have family in Columbia and some far relatives in Caracas myself >> they are the one who greeted me on the South American continent some 25 years and more ago) than you are.
I know that they are concerned for their well being, and in case you'd care to know, I am too (although this is extremely easy for me to say from my Brussels Internet shop) and more so for them,than for those society outcasts , simply for the fact that I know them at least a little bit through whatever communications we've had through this forum.
As I said above I don't like the way Chavez's been turning recently, but I am not sure he really knows where he's heading anymore, either. But the CIA is doing everything for this situation to happen. They consider Latin America as their backyards and have done many more upheavals over centuries than Wakeman did departure from Yes >>> Wow!!! That much?!?!
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Edited by Sean Trane - June 02 2007 at 14:32
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
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Posted: June 02 2007 at 14:33 |
Sean Trane wrote:
Ivàn, I still remembered that story, from last time , but do you honestly think that whatever happened to you happens to everyone there.
What happens to me doesn't happen to everybody, not all the people will be attacked by a jealous husband.
But I BEEN IN TH HOSPITAL I SEEN IT; THEY DON'T BUILD A NEW HOSPITAL FOR EVERY TOURIST.
I bought the resine with the bag reading "Donation from Holland not for sale" while in the hospital they only had cement.
I bought disposable injections while in the hospital they used a glass and metal one for everybody without cleaning it, I had to reject anaestetics, because I was afraid of the needle being infected.
This happens to everybody because it's the main hospital.
There are hundreds of thousands of European tourists going to Cuba every year, and unlike when going to Dominican Republic, they can go almost every place and not be agreesed because most cubans are much friendlier than Dominicans, Jamaicans, Haitians
The reasons are SELFISH I admit it.....CUBA IS CHEAP:
- You pay $1,000.00 all week, tickets, hotel, food, liquor and cigarrettes included, that's exactly as in other coiuntries with the all included service (Only cheaper)
- But when you go to the best places like Tropicana you pay US$ 10.00 (TEN DOLLARS) for all night with free bar (I drank double scotch Chivas Regal Green Bottle all night)
- You can sleep with an incredibly beautiful Tropicana or Havana Cafe veddette for US$ 20.00 (Twenty bucks), of course paying the doorman of the hotel US$ 5.00 because Cubans ARE NOT ALLOWED IN THE HOTELS IF THEY DON'T WORK THERE.
- Yes, the people is friendly because they are nice and because every woman working in Varadero wants to marry a tourist to leave that hell
- They earn US$ 1,000.00 a month (The Jamaican company that owns Siuper Club pays that), but the Government allows theoir citizens to keep 140 pesos (US$ 7.00), the rest goes for Fidel.
- I been inside the house of a person there, and see how they live, the cupons are worth nothing, they have to live with grandparents, uncles and sons to share the cupons.}
I been in Puerto Plata (Rep Dominicana) and Cancun, the service in the hotel is exact (Only it costs twice), but if you get bored of the hotel (And you will), there is the difference.
- A night in Cancun is US$ 300.00 to US$ 500.00.
- A night in Rep Domoinicana is US$ 150.00 to US$ 250.00
- A night in Cuba is US$ 20,00 living as a king and taxis included.
That's the reason why people go to Cuba.
Please no contradict me on this issue, my brother was there last year and a step sister of mine three years ago and their stories are more or less the same. >> Yes the people are fairly hungry and poor , but it is the economy that is dead, precisely because of the embargo happening for the last few decades.
I contradict you, because I BEEN THERE, I rented a motorcycle and went to La Habana by my own, without the service they provide.
It's easy to talk if you stay in the hotel, but if you go out, it's a different reality hidden for tourists.
Probably your brother abnd friends didn'¿ had the disgrace to have an accident and visit one of their hospitals I DID.
Iván
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Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - June 02 2007 at 14:45
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Chus
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: Venezuela
Status: Offline
Points: 1991
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Posted: June 02 2007 at 14:58 |
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The amerindians issue is a delicate one, some do perhaps accept help from 'foreigners', but others are too hostile towards us, and they don't like to be intervened in their way of life. I feel sorry for those who come to the city and beg for money and/or food, but the way the ones who reside in the jungle act towards strangers is unpredictable. Many don't feel identified with our state and our way of life, and that's perhaps the reason they're not much considered by previous administrations. Our Constitution has an article protecting their culture and separating their laws with ours, something which I don't entirely agree because in some amerindian cultures their laws attempt against fundamental human rights, like the usage of torture methods and death penalties.
Edited by Chus - June 02 2007 at 14:59
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Jesus Gabriel
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20414
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Posted: June 02 2007 at 15:19 |
Chus wrote:
The amerindians issue is a delicate one, some do perhaps accept help from 'foreigners', but others are too hostile towards us, and they don't like to be intervened in their way of life. I feel sorry for those who come to the city and beg for money and/or food, but the way the ones who reside in the jungle act towards strangers is unpredictable. Many don't feel identified with our state and our way of life, and that's perhaps the reason they're not much considered by previous administrations. Our Constitution has an article protecting their culture and separating their laws with ours, something which I don't entirely agree because in some amerindian cultures their laws attempt against fundamental human rights, like the usage of torture methods and death penalties. |
Thanks for finally addressing this issue.
Indeed with previous administration, they never felt the need to enlist those tribes living in the jungle, and indeed a lot of these tribes are hostile to those living on the coast. For obvious reasons too, that they know that someday, they will be "removed" from their Ancestral grounds for mineral exploitations. The Orenoque/Orinico valley is pure geological treasure and soon or later it will be destroyed by capitalist apetites.
I think this is why they (the Indios) feel they must take act into worrying of politics before politics worry about them.
As for Ancestral customs, this is indeed a problem (do we let Afgans refugees in Europe force the Burqas on their wives, simply because this is a religius traditions????).
Are you sure that those tribes being so much into respecting their environement and even going as far as thanking the prey they killed and will eat to survive, that they apply torture and death sentences. Not in the documentaries I've seen. They might kill someone from Caracas as an enemi of their welfare, but a fellow tribesman???
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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Chus
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: Venezuela
Status: Offline
Points: 1991
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Posted: June 02 2007 at 15:22 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Sean Trane wrote:
Cuba has one of the healthiest population (it's not able to feed on McDonald grease pits) and one of the longest life expectancy, with a medical care not even close to the toenail of what's done in Californian hospitals in terms of modern technology. But it is free and available to everyone. (So we all hear anyway)
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I believe you are uying the propaganda, and THIS IS FALSE SEAN.
I been in Cuba TWICE and know it from very close.
I broke a tooth in the hotel adter a fight with a jealous husband (I didn't knew she was married until the husband came to the hotel  ), and had an insurance (Assist Card) that covered me US$ 800.00 bucks per minor accident.
I went to the BEST hospital (Varadero is a touristic center where they have the best services for tourists who leave their dollars), it was depressing, a square room of 4 X 4 meters with a dentist chair in the center and surrounded by the patients (No waiting room).
Being foreigner and paying in cash I was the second to receive attention:
- Nobody cleaned the instrumnents after each patient, so if somebody had hepatitis B or AIDS you were in risk.
- The Doctor didn't knew where to start.
- In that situation I asked or a non invasibe treatment only photo sensible resine to cover the tooth.
- The doctor didn't had resine, he had to use cement.
- He didn't had a clue where to start (Everybody is doctor, even the girl who cleans my toilet)
- The material got destroyed after 4 hours.
- The doctor charged me US$ 300.00 I had to claim the money to Assist Card and they paid inmediately
- There was a canadian Doctor hosted in the hotel with his emergency kitl, made me buy the resine that was availlable in the black market (The bag said donated by Holland, not for sale), the doctot also bought the ultra violet light pen which was very cheap for emergencies (Also donation) whicjh he keprt because he said it was fgreat technology.
- With his basic kit, ths 23 years old dentist from Canada made an excellent job in the hotel room that my dentist in Lima couldn't believe.
Another day I asked the guy who directed recreational sports in the Hotel why there were no patients with AIDS or Tuberculosis accoeding to the official papers, he told me that they have lots of AIDS patients, but once they are diagnosed they are lterally lumped in the very modern Leprosory building also donated but empty of medixcines.
So, the story they have sold us is FALSE, medicine sucks in Cuba, people die every day wi6th a simple pneumonia, despíte Europe gives them first line antibiotics that are sold in the black market IN DOLLARS (Nobody accepts Pesos) and only a small percentage goes to the hospitals and clinics
This guy is a doctor and he told me the numbers are FALSE, they manipulate the information hidding the sick people in terrible places.
Please guys, when you listen this wonderful stories of miracle medicine or romantic revolutions, investigate and you'll find most are false and the romantic revolutuions are Dictator getting rich and giving scraps to the poor people and stying with the donations..
Nobody told me, I been there.
Iván |
I second that, Chavez has imported lots of cuban doctors (who don't even know what a disposable needle is) and many that were attended by those medics were in the brink of dying after treatment, and they were in for minor issues. I know of one case in which a woman almost becomes quadriplegic after seeing a cuban doctor.
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Jesus Gabriel
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Chus
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: Venezuela
Status: Offline
Points: 1991
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Posted: June 02 2007 at 15:30 |
A friend of mine works as engineer in an electricity company, and he has to travel to those places near the Orinoco, in Canaima and such. He had the chance to relate with a friendly tribe, and they don't feel threatened at all, as far as I understood. Not all relationships with the big mineral companies are hostile.
And regarding amerindian cultures, they're very varied, some are very harsh and vengative to say the least, others are more pacifists; as I said, they are unpredictable
Edited by Chus - June 02 2007 at 15:32
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Jesus Gabriel
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
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Posted: June 02 2007 at 16:13 |
Chus Wrote:
| second that, Chavez has imported lots of cuban doctors (who don't even know what a disposable needle is) and many that were attended by those medics were in the brink of dying after treatment, and they were in for minor issues. I know of one case in which a woman almost becomes quadriplegic after seeing a cuban doctor. |
What do you expect Chus? they don't have experience:
The general salary in Cuba is 140 Pesos (I believe it's 20 pesos for dollar), for the Doctor, Engeneer or Architect the same as the guy who ties Cohiba cigars.
If you are young and good looking, you go to the hotels, they hire you for the same 140 pesos but you can take the food left from the Buffett in the night to your house (A lot is left), you may receive a tip despite it's strictly forbidden (I gave US$ 30.00 to a girl that gcleaned my room and only accepted because she knew I'm from Perú, she told me it was 4 months salary).
And at last, they have the chance to marry a tourist (I seen two marriages in the time I was there).
So the girl who made my bed was an engineer, the one that cleaned the bathroom was a doctor, please, cleaning toillets you don't get medical experience.
I don't know if it's the same but in the Patrice Lumumba University in USSR the doctors studied Marxism as 60% of the subjects (My best friend went to give some lectures from his university and the guys were amazed how much he knew being a Resident only),........ 40% of a career is not enough, I guess Cuba s the same.
So lets not believe in mytths.
Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - June 02 2007 at 16:15
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markosherrera
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 01 2006
Location: World
Status: Offline
Points: 3252
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Posted: June 02 2007 at 18:57 |
Some time i WENT to a cuban dentist , he say I can cure
cavities ,but I cant extract, go to a private doctor ,the cuban doctors are good for first help but not for special attention ) My friends I am an independent left wing democratic ,if chavez make something good I am the first in recognize that ,but if he make an error I am the first in attack I LOVE INDIAN CULTURE , ART, FOOD, MUSIC I KNOW ALL THE STATES Of vENEZUELA AND I SWIMED IN Orinoco river and TALK WITH PEMON INDIANS ,the mother of my daughter is from Peru Huancayo(indian) I WANT A GOVERMENT THAT GIVE MORE OPORTUNITIES TO THE POOR PEOPLE ,FREE EDUCATION,AND HEALTH AND COMBAT MONOPOLIES I am 100% HETEROSEXUAL , but I defend and respect the rights of LESBIANS and HOMOSEXUALS , I am catholic and I defend the RIGHT of babies ,for this I believe that ABORT is KILL ,I am anti imperialist ,and believe that Bush is like Devil , and I want that stop the invasion of Irak ,I BELIEVE THAT JEWS ARE GOOD PEOPLE AND GIVE GREAT CONTRIBUTIONS TO HUMANITY LIKE jESUS ,Einstein, Mendelsohn, etc etc and holocaust was horrible ,but I DEFEND THE RIGHT OF pALESTINIANS AND LEBANESES( ,BUT NOT THE TERRORIST ) WELL IF THE MEMBERS READ MY POSTS , they can see that I am progresist, I DEFEND the right of animals I AM Ecologist etc BUT....BUT...THE FREEDOM IS TOO IMPORTANT ,I cant defend when a president close one channel of TV , A radio or a magazINE because is oposition, or think different, or when say that will change the religion , that is bad desire progress and live better, . ..In Cuba is better be stranger than Cuban ...there are beach for tourists(the bests) and other for cubans , ice cream stores for tourists and other for Cubans. .I have one sister married with a cuban living here in Venezuela, he tell all the problems of Cuba imagine a country with only one kind of soap ,dental past, food etc ,he only could eat a chocolat for first time AT 24 I want a socialism more or less like the sistem of Norway, Danemark ,etc ,but not the stalinism of Cuba .today I LISTENED cHAVEZ SAYING THAT jESUCRIST WAS ONLY A SUPERMAN comUnist LIKE cHE gUEVARA ........................................... Sean here is imposible and indian revolution they are fews,(1.5%) the politics, talk against whites or SIMILARS ,only because they have hate in their hearts ,for me we have a bigger heritage from europe and africa , that from our indians that I love and respect and have all the right to maintain theirs culture ,identity, but I dont like that make obligatory to all the 95% of the rest of population LEARN INDIAN LANGUAGE , Some people believe that are ridicules or malicious my comments,but are true.................I KNOW OTHER COUNTRIES making tourism but i cant say that I know how is live and work in that countries, ... each is too different of other, .. ... someone can say that I dont like what is making Chavez now ,because I am a part of media class etc ,no .... I live in my own little apartment, and have a little renault TWINGO 2003 but after years of sacrifice.
Edited by markosherrera - June 03 2007 at 22:21
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20414
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Posted: June 03 2007 at 06:36 |
^^^^
Markos, I'd love to read you (and respond to your certainly very meaningful post) , but I can't bring myself to do it because it looks like a big square box full of letters. Could you please use paragraphs? It would certainly help.
Sorry , the last thing I want to do is hurt you, as you're probably hurting enough already from the state of your country.
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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Chus
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: Venezuela
Status: Offline
Points: 1991
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Posted: June 03 2007 at 14:06 |
My friends, rumour has it that Globovision (the only channel which followed our brave protestants) will be closed down arbitrarily on june 8th; though that's unofficial, I don't think it can't happen, the president of the channel and the conductor of the program which presumably sent the message to kill Chavez were called to the Office of the General Prosecutor to declare about that presumed message, deducing that by an event of randomness, putting together the lyrics of the music by Ruben Blades and the images of the assassination attempt to John Paul the II, a deduction which goes beyond ridiculous since that was just an image of the many that were put in that micro, and those were the many major events that RCTV covered. But they found an "excuse" (as ridiculous as that) to act against the law once again and to abuse of their power.
When that happens, the dictatorship will be consumated. There's no stopping him now, unless the military reacts or the international community acts quickly.
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Jesus Gabriel
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
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Posted: June 03 2007 at 17:33 |
Chus wrote:
My friends, rumour has it that Globovision (the only channel which followed our brave protestants) will be closed down arbitrarily on june 8th; though that's unofficial, I don't think it can't happen, the president of the channel and the conductor of the program which presumably sent the message to kill Chavez were called to the Office of the General Prosecutor to declare about that presumed message, deducing that by an event of randomness, putting together the lyrics of the music by Ruben Blades and the images of the assassination attempt to John Paul the II, a deduction which goes beyond ridiculous since that was just an image of the many that were put in that micro, and those were the many major events that RCTV covered. But they found an "excuse" (as ridiculous as that) to act against the law once again and to abuse of their power.
When that happens, the dictatorship will be consumated. There's no stopping him now, unless the military reacts or the international community acts quickly. |
Amazing, without having seen the video, and because I'm familiar with Rubemn Blades great music, I guiess the song was El Padre Antonio y el Monaguillo Andrés dedicated to Father Arnulfo Romero.
Thuis is outrageous, Dictators are all the same, there's no connection between John Paul II or Father Arnulfo Romero with Chavez (Thanks God for that).
Probably he will close Globovisión and all the free media.
Iván
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20414
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Posted: June 04 2007 at 05:14 |
markosherrera wrote:
At 24, I want a socialism more or less like the system of Norway, Danemark , etc , but not the stalinism of Cuba.Today I LISTENED cHAVEZ SAYING THAT jESUCRIST WAS ONLY A SUPERMAN comUnist LIKE cHE gUEVARA ........................................... >>> no doubt JC would've been a leftist socialist, with some communism tendencies, but probably not an atheist.
Sean here is imposible and indian revolution they are fews,(1.5%) the politics, talk against whites or SIMILARS , only because they have hate in their hearts, for me we have a bigger heritage from europe and africa , that from our indians that I love and respect and have all the right to maintain theirs culture ,identity, but I dont like that make obligatory to all the 95% of the rest of population LEARN INDIAN LANGUAGE >>> Indeed forceing all Venezualans to learn Indian ialects is ridiculous and probably the claim of some indigenous extremist minority.
Some people believe that are ridicules or malicious my comments,but true................. I KNOW OTHER COUNTRIES making tourism but i cant say that I know how is live and work in that countries, ... each is too different of other, >> just for a small explanation, my idea of touring a country is certainly through hotels and tourist sites and sights (even if I do see those too). When I did go through the Andes , I was 18 with limited resources (past the 4X4 we had bought) so we often slept in the back of the vehicle (this was better insurance that it would not get stolen too) in order to avoid hotel costs and often used public baths/lavatories. We generally ate in local food joints (which means we lost about one week being sick from Montezuma's Revenge >> Mexico's version of turist diahrrheas>> we knew we wouldn't escape it through our two months sojourn, so we build up our immunities in Columbia where the family could at least provide assistance in case of real problems). And we often preferred discussing with Indios (we often left tips that was equal to the price of the meals) than the mid-class who disliked these young "Canadian hippies" that did not contribute by spending enough(the price of meals in restaurantswas generally converted in smokables or chewables) .
someone can say that I dont like what is making Chavez now, because I am a part of media class etc, no .... I live in my own little apartment, and have a little renault TWINGO 2003 but after years of sacrifice. >>> You know, many Europeans don't have a car and don't own their homes/appartments either. My car is 9-years old, I rent an appartment too.
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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IVNORD
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 13 2006
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1191
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Posted: June 04 2007 at 10:16 |
Sean Trane wrote:
IVNORD wrote:
Although some things they say sound bizarre, I wouldn’t be surprised to learn they are real. Don’t you think they know it better living in the country vs you reading it on the internet? Regardless of their political stance. I am profoundly sorry for what’s happening to them. I personally wouldn’t resort to protest and fighting, but it’s just me. It emanates from my deep apathy and cynicism towards politics and power. But I don’t question their best intentions. >> I wouldn't want to appear anyless sorry for then and their country (I have family in Columbia and some far relatives in Caracas myself >> they are the one who greeted me on the South American continent some 25 years and more ago) than you are.
I know that they are concerned for their well being, and in case you'd care to know, I am too (although this is extremely easy for me to say from my Brussels Internet shop) and more so for them,than for those society outcasts , simply for the fact that I know them at least a little bit through whatever communications we've had through this forum.
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Sean, you don’t have to be so defensive (as I’ve said before I like radicals and liberals as they are usually honest but thoroughly confused, unrealistic and naïve) . You accused markosherrera of spreading rumors. If you prefer TV programs to eyewitness accounts it’s your business. I just pointed out that it looks a bit arrogant. I don’t doubt you wishing them all the best. And I see you showng much warmth in you last post because of her leftist stand I guess.
Sean Trane wrote:
IVNORD wrote:
Now I’ve never experienced the Cuban healthcare system (thank God!) but I vividly remember all benefits of the Soviet one which by default must be superior to the Cuban and which was based not on knowledge and professionalism but on doctor’s compassion or lack of such. You were lucky if the doctor took interest in you since they had no other incentive to do a good job to retain you as a client. How about dentists inflicting pain on patients for the fun of it? Extractin a tooth vs. doing a root canal because it’s cheaper? Wiping your blood with your own handkerchief after a tooth extraction? (if you had none, bad luck). Doctors conducting weird experiments on orphaned infants? The same way it’s available in Canada (or Belgium) for free, so Canadians cross the border to have a surgery in the US instead of waiting for years at home. Don't take everything leftist propaganda says for granted. >>> As I said we don't know any better, whether be you or I. I hear/see sources from documentaries and others TV programs telling us it is so (and this is from people having visited or even living there).
Not about to give those documentaries any less credit than the link you gave (which is US-based when the only thing the US is worried about is doing away with the Castrists. And if anyone tells me the White House is not worried about it everyday, they just had a meeting two days ago with Spain to talk about it and couldn't agree on anything. Bush is pissing himself ten times a day over the Cuban Crisis. Clinton couldn't have cared lass, since it was a Cuban ciggie up Monica's twàt.
As I said above I don't like the way Chavez's been turning recently, but I am not sure he really knows where he's heading anymore, either. But the CIA is doing everything for this situation to happen. They consider Latin America as their backyards and have done many more upheavals over centuries than Wakeman did departure from Yes >>> Wow!!! That much?!?!
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What Cuban crises? Circa 1962? As you said, we don't know any better, whether be you or I as to the inner doings of the White house, so I wouldn’t be so sure to state that they are worried about Cuba every day. They may, they may not. The evidence suggests they don’t. Castro is like a fly on the wall. Not only he can’t send Che Guevarra on a mission or go as a willing mercenary to Africa any longer, he can barely buy enough gasoline to keep his tanks and planes running. Ever since the Soviet supplies of everything stopped flowing, he became a nuisance. (funny, they shipped stuff to him to support his sorry ass in exchange for sugar which they bought at inflated prices to create an appearance of balanced books. But whenever Cuba coulnd’t meet their production quotas, Castro would buy sugar at the world market and re-sell it to the Russians, nice business ethics). Even the liberal media in the US can’t report anything positive on Cuba, although the negativities they mention are presented with an air of sympathy and more like misfortunes than calamities caused by Castro regime. And from what I hear, “the sources from documentaries and others TV programs” you’re watching have a reputation as dubious as the left-wing clowns accompanying their communist bosses on their vacation trips to the USSR some 40-50 years ago. When they were shown facilities at the exclusive party resorts, which rank and file could not even imagine existed in their wildest dreams. Then they presented it to westerners as a great advantage of socialism. Quite similar to the programs on Cuba you enjoy watching. And please stop this paranoid nonsense about the CIA plotting against Chavez. He will do the job himself with all the crap he’s doing. The CIA is not as sinister as it used to be. It’s a mere shadow of its former self thanks to Clinton who turned it in just another government bureaucracy. That’s why we missed N. Korea, India and Pakistan acquiring nuclear arms and had other disasters ranging from the blasting of the embassies in Africa to 9/11 to the war in Iraq.
I will answer the rest of your post later
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20414
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Posted: June 04 2007 at 11:06 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
Sean Trane wrote:
Ivàn, I still remembered that story, from last time , but do you honestly think that whatever happened to you happens to everyone there.
What happens to me doesn't happen to everybody, not all the people will be attacked by a jealous husband.
But I BEEN IN TH HOSPITAL I SEEN IT; THEY DON'T BUILD A NEW HOSPITAL FOR EVERY TOURIST.
I bought the resine with the bag reading "Donation from Holland not for sale" while in the hospital they only had cement.
I bought disposable injections while in the hospital they used a glass and metal one for everybody without cleaning it, I had to reject anaestetics, because I was afraid of the needle being infected.
This happens to everybody because it's the main hospital.
There are hundreds of thousands of European tourists going to Cuba every year, and unlike when going to Dominican Republic, they can go almost every place and not be agreesed because most cubans are much friendlier than Dominicans, Jamaicans, Haitians
The reasons are SELFISH I admit it.....CUBA IS CHEAP:
- You pay $1,000.00 all week, tickets, hotel, food, liquor and cigarrettes included, that's exactly as in other coiuntries with the all included service (Only cheaper)
- But when you go to the best places like Tropicana you pay US$ 10.00 (TEN DOLLARS) for all night with free bar (I drank double scotch Chivas Regal Green Bottle all night)
- You can sleep with an incredibly beautiful Tropicana or Havana Cafe veddette for US$ 20.00 (Twenty bucks), of course paying the doorman of the hotel US$ 5.00 because Cubans ARE NOT ALLOWED IN THE HOTELS IF THEY DON'T WORK THERE.
- Yes, the people is friendly because they are nice and because every woman working in Varadero wants to marry a tourist to leave that hell
- They earn US$ 1,000.00 a month (The Jamaican company that owns Super Club pays that), but the Government allows theoir citizens to keep 140 pesos (US$ 7.00), the rest goes for Fidel.
- I been inside the house of a person there, and see how they live, the cupons are worth nothing, they have to live with grandparents, uncles and sons to share the cupons.}
I been in Puerto Plata (Rep Dominicana) and Cancun, the service in the hotel is exact (Only it costs twice), but if you get bored of the hotel (And you will), there is the difference.
- A night in Cancun is US$ 300.00 to US$ 500.00.
- A night in Rep Domoinicana is US$ 150.00 to US$ 250.00
- A night in Cuba is US$ 20,00 living as a king and taxis included.
That's the reason why people go to Cuba.
Please no contradict me on this issue, my brother was there last year and a step sister of mine three years ago and their stories are more or less the same. >> Yes the people are fairly hungry and poor , but it is the economy that is dead, precisely because of the embargo happening for the last few decades.
I contradict you, because I BEEN THERE, I rented a motorcycle and went to La Habana by my own, without the service they provide.
It's easy to talk if you stay in the hotel, but if you go out, it's a different reality hidden for tourists.
Probably your brother and friends didn't had the disgrace to have an accident and visit one of their hospitals I DID.
Iván
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How can I fight such bad faith.
I could've gone on and discussed point by point, but claiming everything goes to Fidel is not only but it dircredits the rest of your post >> the drops that overflows the bucket . No offence meant, Ivàn.
Cuba is certainly not perfect: I'd say they are in an unenviable position, and I would not like being Cuban, but most of what's wrong there (outside Castro himself) is due to foreign elements (you know the huge country the size of a continent that swore it would eradicate the tiny island).
I don't hold much esteem for Castro or other dictatorian regimes, but I noticed there are always threads about Cuba and other Communist-tending regime, but I have yet to read something on Panama's regime (just to mention that one >> Salvador or Honduras anyone???  No ????     I thought so!!!  ). Betcha the Panameans are as hungry and don't live quite as long as Cubans.
As for my brother and cousin (female, two kids and not lesbian, so she's not going for the cheap sex), I've seen the pictures of their travel and they usually travel the way I do >> they avoid palaces. They didn't go there to play pancakes on the beach or screw Cuban hookers/housewives/single girls, they visited the country from favellas to those Batista-regime mansions (being renovated to accomodates rich capitalists clients who want to get cheap but healthy hookers and spend as little as possible) with their whole families, they always felt safe and the kids came back knowing what a poor country looks like, and they are very much appreciative of how European democracies work.
Thanks for the selfishness of my brother .
BTW, for a colleague of mine told me yesterday that his holidays in Dominica cost him 20% more than his Cuban holidays (not 140% as you say), but he was constantly advised not to wander from the beaten path. Which means he was unable to visit the place and actually see how the people lived.
He is a diver and dreams of retiring in Jamaica, and has shown me the ghetto he wants to retire in >> a fortress. Listen to 10CC's Bloody Tourists. There are places in most of the island where they kill you for just having a little too whiter shade of pale, even if you don't hve a present from your mother to take away.
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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IVNORD
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 13 2006
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1191
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Posted: June 04 2007 at 14:11 |
Sean Trane wrote:
IVNORD wrote:
Now what these guys write about Venezuelan affairs sounds somewhat familiar. So your threat to investigate markosherrera claims is rather ridiculous than malicious (and I’m saying it amicably) as you appear to be more of an honest victim of disinformation than a promoter of it. >>> Hang on a second I may not live in the country but as stated above I have been there (and all over the Andes) yet the only thing I can tell you is that Amerindians were/are not getting better treatment than the Sioux or the Aborigens from Australia, >>> YET they are people too, they are supposedly citizens. They are voluntarily despised from Conquistador descendence and voluntarily forgotten by the middle class and the Establishment.
Marcos, Chus and Ivàn are all at least middle class, and the first sign of it being that they have Internet access. Something than an estimated 45 millions Indios in South America don't have. It takes once in a while a rocker like Sting to bring some Chief Raonis to world fame (his mostly).
Yes South America might just be facing another tentative upheaval in some (less-than) two decades, unless countries where they are a majority start advancing. In Guatemala, Indios are over 70% of population. I won't look for Ecuador or Bolivia (let you do it ) but my educated guess is somewhere between 40 to 60% of population.
Venezuella's geography is amazingly still completely undiscovered and most likely even Chavez has no real idea of how many Indios there are in his country. But that's his main support and he's getting the majority in every elections, and should there be more, most likely it will be reelected. I read an article a few months ago (I believe it was in A Le Monde Diplomatique-related publications >>> and this THE international French speaking reference) that over 90 % of Venezuellans never saw the Orenoque river from their own eyes or went to see the Tepuis (those amazing plateaus), even from afar. The country's population lives on the coast and the inner land is only for mining companies, ready to exterminates Indios for a few emeralds, manganese, beauxites and Germanium >>> this last material is extremely rare and much needed in electronics and the Silicon valley is considering this as theirs. >>> that's a reality too.
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This is all just nice and spirited talk similar to that of liberal professors in US universities. While condemning imperialism, they don’t bother to acknowledge the fact that their well-being (even the chance to criticize) is a product of that imperialism. They talk about poor coffee farmers in Guatemala while sipping coffee in their air-conditioned classrooms without realizing they would have had to pick those coffee beans themselves if not for those farmers.
Here’s a bit of reality. Yes, Amerindians are people too but the global economy doesn’t have a proper place for them yet, like it or not. If history is any guidance, just some 100 years ago, workers all throughout the world lived no better than coffee farmers today. Yet it wasn’t the class struggle, street fighting or benevolent rulers who changed it, but advances in technology and science and the mass markets (read the Economy). The increases in industrial output produced the need for mass consumption and increase of buying power of the working class to become the mass consumer. Since there’s no need today in Guatemalan farmer becoming a mass consumer, there;s nothing you can do about it. At best, you can try to educate them, but you will have to part with all the niceties provided by the European socialism, which too, by the way, lives nicely at the expense of the third world.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
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Posted: June 05 2007 at 00:20 |
Sean Trane wrote:
How can I fight such bad faith.
I could've gone on and discussed point by point, but claiming everything goes to Fidel is not only but it dircredits the rest of your post >> the drops that overflows the bucket . No offence meant, Ivàn.
Who do you believe the money goes Sean?
To the Government ruled by Fidel with no elections for almost 5 decades, for the person that ruined the country
Or do you believe the hotels go to Cuba to make them a favour? No Sean they pay huge amounts of money to earn more money and where it goes? The people don't see it, they live worst each day.
Cuba is certainly not perfect: I'd say they are in an unenviable position, and I would not like being Cuban, but most of what's wrong there (outside Castro himself) is due to foreign elements (you know the huge country the size of a continent that swore it would eradicate the tiny island).
No Sean is caused by a person who offered to throw a dictator and turned himself in a worst one.
When the Peruvian Embassy was invaded many Cubands came here, some honest people who put little restaurants at the beach and I clearly remember one of them telling me things were worst today than when Batista was President.
He fought to defeat a dictator who was replaced by a worst one.
I don't hold much esteem for Castro or other dictatorian regimes, but I noticed there are always threads about Cuba and other Communist-tending regime, but I have yet to read something on Panama's regime (just to mention that one >> Salvador or Honduras anyone??? No ???? I thought so!!! ). Betcha the Panameans are as hungry and don't live quite as long as Cubans.
Not saying the world is perfect, but Cuba has enough resources to stay out of the terrible destiny they are facing, the Tourism industry is millionare, but the money stays in the Government not in the people who need it.
As for my brother and cousin (female, two kids and not lesbian, so she's not going for the cheap sex), I've seen the pictures of their travel and they usually travel the way I do >> they avoid palaces. They didn't go there to play pancakes on the beach or screw Cuban hookers/housewives/single girls, they visited the country from favellas to those Batista-regime mansions (being renovated to accomodates rich capitalists clients who want to get cheap but healthy hookers and spend as little as possible) with their whole families, they always felt safe and the kids came back knowing what a poor country looks like, and they are very much appreciative of how European democracies work.
Most surely your brother don't Sean or his family, but again, I been there, and most people is young and go for cheap pleasure.
I went with a girlfriend as you can see in the picture I once posted so didn't went to sleep with Cuban Housewives or attendants, but I'm not blind, I saw what it happens there.
Thanks for the selfishness of my brother .
Again, your brother went with his family, but that's not the general rule.
Most of the hotels in Varadero don't accept people younger than 16 years old, so the system is defined for people wanting to have cheap fun, that's how they created it with the knowledge of the Government.
BTW, for a colleague of mine told me yesterday that his holidays in Dominica cost him 20% more than his Cuban holidays (not 140% as you say), but he was constantly advised not to wander from the beaten path. Which means he was unable to visit the place and actually see how the people lived.
Let me tell you something, I been in Cuba and went as I told you to the Havana Café (A night club) with a couple, we paid US$ 10.00 each and had free bar all night, in Cancún a good discoteque or Night Club is not cheaper than $ 200.00 per couple probably much more, in Puerto Plata we're talking about US$ 150.00 minimum, so there's a difference.
I don't go for prostitution or similar, but I go to have a good time, not all day in the hotel drinking Piña Coladas or Mohitos, my budget is limited, so I go toi where I can afford and beleive me it was much cheaper in Cuba than anywhere else I been.
He is a diver and dreams of retiring in Jamaica, and has shown me the ghetto he wants to retire in >> a fortress. Listen to 10CC's Bloody Tourists. There are places in most of the island where they kill you for just having a little too whiter shade of pale, even if you don't hve a present from your mother to take away.
Jamaica is a hell in comparison with other countries, not being rich I usually go to hotels with all included system, and always been told to avoid Jamaica, but this doesn't make Cuba better,
Now your brother is a diver, he's a special case please, like the surfer who wants to retoire in the most lonely part of Hawai to enjoy the life they love, but that's not the case of most peope.
On my second trip to Cuba I took money to a woman from her daughter and saw how they lived, I was in their house, I was invited to eat the little they had to offer, the people is very nice and gentle, they don't deserve that.
Until this crime ends, I will not go back becausre the money doesn't go for the people as you will see uin the next post.
Iván |
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - June 05 2007 at 01:35
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