It's happening tonight, channel 2 called "Radio Caracas Television" will suspend their transmission tonight because the government won't renew their concession for open signal; obviously for political reasons. If that wasn't enough, all the equipment will be confiscated for further use in a future "state" channel (more like government channel), which clearly means abusing of private property to save budget money, and this was judicial sentence!! Freedom of speech is finally being questioned here. What also bugs me is the unwillingness for people here to make a decent protest, they just seem to take it lightly and they feel vulnerable and afraid. My conception of it all is that the government are just our employees, not our rulers; we rule, they just execute our rules. However people seem to take it differently, as if the president was a sort of limited monarch. They are in charge of public services and always act for the sake and will of the people, not viceversa nor the contrary. And yes, this administration has serious left-wing leanings (which reflects in Chavez' relationship with Fidel Castro, his admiration for Che Guevara, Allende, Mao Tse-Tung, etc.)

 

There's no problem in having left-wing leanings if you don't have dictatorial leanings which unfortunately seems to be the case of Chavez, who was very close to Lula in the recent past but I think that after the 'Bolivia affair' our "leader", the bearded-man, solved to downgrade his admiration for Chavez.

 

Lula & friends themselves tried to open a public TV channel here but something isn't working properly - I guess that the Supreme Court blocked their intention.

 

Anyway, it's a pit that any voice (no matter which side) may be silenced.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,2085859,00.html - http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,2085859,00.html

 

Given that the channel in question actually backed the military coup against Chavez in 2002 the reaction has been quite restrained; all that's happening is that their licence isn't being renewed. Imagine if one of the major networks in the USA openly called for the overthrow of the president and backed an armed coup against him - how long would it take for their 'right to free speech' to be called into question and revoked entirely?

 

Incidentally, I'm not defending Chavez here (I don't know enough about the situation for a start) but I do find the way that this has been reported in the mainstream media a little one sided, as is most of the reporting about Chavez.

 

This is the hard thing about fighting against the US imperialism: They fight you back in every single dirty way possible, you start trying to find allies , and generally end up of course really getting on the wrong side of the tracks.

 

I don't really find his support to Bolivia, Ecuador (both fighting the indegenous cause as he is) or even Cuba a problem, but lately, he's been making friends with Iran, and this bugs me incredibly. This is exactly were the US want him to head in order to have him demoted.

 

The constant pro-US olligarchy harassment (as well as the US itself) is pushing him to become increasingly paranoiac and making idiot mistakes such as these.

 

Chavez is not (yet) a dictator (but it looks like if he keeps going in his direction, he could become one someday), since he is regularly elected and those elections have always been scrutinized by the UN as fair.

 

 

It would be useful for Lula and Morales to have a good talk to Chavez about lightning up on his authoritarian stances.

 

better they install some good educational and objective news, without a polarising attempt at influencing the people with the use of lies and slander, which is my view on such TV stations.

 

I support mr Chavez, he will not always be right, but I believe he try's to do the right thing for his country and his people.

 If you think that a channel is full of imperialist propaganda, YOU and only YOU can say " I dont like this, or I disagree", only you. Not the goverment, and to make it worse, from a bunch of people that are talking the whole day about that wealth is bad, that being rich is bad.....yes good one..but all the ones that tell you that, are driving Hummers and going on vacations to the USA as much as they can and their children with Ipod's talking about what 's new on cable tv. 

 

 Does anyone believe in that Speech?????....

 

Those who don't come from SouthAmerica maybe can't properly understand the populist phenomenon.... I see some posts here supporting Chavez... I don't want to be harsh, sorry, but when you have never known what it's like to live without democracy or rights, it's very easy to applaud from afar when you see a southamerican president standing up to the stupidity of Bush, for example.... That's what gains supporters outside his borders....

 

Think for a moment that you that have lived all your life in industriaslized, free countries, (specially a so-free society like Holland, which i app[laud by the way) suddenly woke up one morning and somebody told you what ypu can hear and what you can't....Imagine that you used to listen to a radio or tv station that opposes the government, and suddenly you don't have A CHOICE anymore....

 

Chavez dares to use the name of Bolivar in every speech he gives... Man would the "libertador" be turning in his grave knowing that such an enemy of freedom uses him as an excuse!

 

My country is going the same way... the president is suing a newspaper already for diffamation....Very good....But Mr Correa and Mr Chavez are not the only responsible for this.... there's a guy in the White House who has helped the populist-left to gain power and respect and EVEN legitimacy in southamerica.....

 

All of you who don't know what populism is because you haven't lived with it, congratulations!

 

"...Tariq Ali, the British political activist.

"This was a channel openly calling for the overthrow of a democratically elected government," said Mr Ali.

He compared the case to Thames Television's loss of its broadcast franchise after airing Death on The Rock, a 1988 documentary about the killing of three IRA members which infuriated Margaret Thatcher's government. It was a controversial but legal decision, said Mr Ali."

The channel in question hasn't been closed down by force, it didn't get its licence renewed - big difference. The channel can still broadcast via sattelite and the internet. The majority of Venezuela's media are anti Chavez but still seem to be operating as previously.

 

And remember - Chavez is a democratically elected leader who has twice been re-elected. He didn't seize power by military force, nor has he maintained power y military force.

 

None of which, incidentally, means that I support this action specifically or Chavez's regime of the last couple of years in general. The non renewal of the licence has been a disastrous own goal in propaganda terms which has only served to alienate many of his supporters and give more ammunition to his critics, and the treatment of the demonstrators was disgusting.

 

I'm sorry but that's absurd, if they wanted to put another channel they could had easily done that without having to close another (they can't stand when someone critizise them, so they shut them up), now ONLY 1 CHANNEL COVERS ALL THE STREET  MOVEMENTS GOING ABOUT, WHILE THE REST SIMPLY SHUT UP AND KEEP PUTTING CRAP ON THEIR PROGRAMME, AS MANY RETRO-MINDED PROGRAMS AND CRAPPY SOAP OPERAS AS RCTV HAD (which I admit were bad enough)... sometimes you need to live it to give opinion on things like that, the issue is NOT the channel, is what the action represents, which is the right for people to choose the channel they want to see, be it a private or public channel. Even if I didn't like the programme (which I didn't, it was horrible programme), I respect the right of the ones who like it, but that's the beauty of pluralism, you get to see what you like, as for me, I try not to watch much national TV, or even no TV at all, only documentaries and such.

 

EDIT: I hope I didn't come around as harsh tux, I apologize but I was mostly speaking out of dispair and understand you are not as informed as I am about our situation

 

Wrong, the majority of Venezuelan channels are pro-Chavez now, he through his comrades bought them and/or their owners, now only one channel covers the street movements (it's concession expires later on, and it most surely won't be renewed), while the rest keeps putting their crappy programme, and anti-Chavez workers were thrown recently from those channels. Since RCTV decided not to sell itself, not only did he not renew their concession, but they STOLE their equipment with the help of a "judicial" sentence, not expropiated, STOLEN!. I'm sorry but I explained before they did not back a military coup, that was just a dirty campaign Chavez had mantained through all these years, as well as the anti-imperialist propaganda; they couldn't air what was happening on april 13th because they were threatened, as they are now. Also the universities around the country are threatened; today I was at a pacific protest in Brion Square, when I left five minutes later the police started to detonate tear-gas bombs without apparent reason, the tanks were arriving to the scene threatening the people there, who were at their most pacific stance. I'm sorry but Freedom of Speech is not a favour of the government, it's a right, and we're now fighting for it. Now they're also saying that there's also a coup behind the students' movements, and there are political forces behind, when it was most apparent that we went there by our own conviction, and we ordered the political parties' flags to be put down in our protest.

 

I heard that too, my friend. Unfortunately Globovision's microwaves can't operate (they were confiscated) so they can't put images on air outside the confines of Caracas 

 

Sean,

 

Is Venezuela still on the brink of bankrupcy?

The T wrote:  Those who don't come from SouthAmerica maybe can't properly understand the populist phenomenon.... I see some posts here supporting Chavez... I don't want to be harsh, sorry, but when you have never known what it's like to live without democracy or rights, it's very easy to applaud from afar when you see a southamerican president standing up to the stupidity of Bush, for example.... That's what gains supporters outside his borders....   All of you who don't know what populism is because you haven't lived with it, congratulations!

 

 

Although I haven't been in South America recently, I did a crossing of the Andes in 81 from Caracas to Santiago De Chile (originally intending to go to Tierre Del Fuego, but we never got therefor smoking reasons), and I had plenty of time to see the realities of the continent (including a few hours in an Ecuador police post, saved from a trip to jail by a diplomatic passport) and sleeping in Indian "huts" at 4000 m altitude, eating mashed (trampled by the housewive but uncooked) potatoes with locals.

 

I can tell you that those populist and left-leaning democracies cannot be worse than most of the right-leaning dictators of those years ( Pinochet never bothered me as long as I stayed a tourist and didn't get involved). Surely the Indios cannot be worse of in Venezuala or Ecuador than they've been for the last 300 years.

 

 

As for populism, there is not a single definition of populism, because every populism depends of the populist deploying it. To take the Netherlands (since you addressed Tuxon about this) , the only known populist was Pim Fortuyn who had a much success  and got shot dead a few uears ago, definitely burying the movement. This guy had close to fascist stance even slightly racist remarks, yet was highly popular amongst the poorer classes and actually had many immigrants backing him. This was puzzling as hell. I only came in the country a few months after his murder, so I was never able to really understand the mechanics it was working on.

 

 

 

 

 

IVNORD wrote:   Sean,   I don't know why it never occured to me that you are a radical as you have conformed to  every definition in my book... I like radicals, they usually honest and well-intentioned guys, though grossly confused... >> I was never a radical, but have voted left wing for most of my life. But in Europe and especially in Southern Belgium, the Socialist party has become more the problem than the solution >> they almost incite people to stay at home and not get jobs so that they can profit from programmes etc.. (>> if you want more >> In a PM).   So for the first time in my life, I am actually contemplating voting for the liberals (I hate conservateur or Christian democrats as they called themselves) next month in the national elections, just because it is time to send the socialist in the opposition for a renewal of the people. Indeed the left has become so corrupt and rotten and they are not able (or worse, lack the will) to get rid of the rotten apples in the basket.   Chavez is a pathetic opportunist. He does not fight the US imperialism. It's a smoke screen to achieve his personal goals. I don't know exactly what goals and I don't care to know as he is of little significance. >> Chavez is so far rolling for the Amerindians majority of his country who own less than 5% of the wealth of the country. This is why he nationalized the oil industry.     If he fought the US imperialism he would have stopped selling us his oil. Instead he enjoys the nice run-up in prices to support his domestic programs (throwng a bone to the population) squeezing all he can as he most likely still remembers as Venezuela was on the brink of bankrupcy just some 8 years ago when the price was just slightly above $10 and the cost of production in  Venezuela  happened to be over $8. Wonder if he still pays his workers the same $8 , such a caring fellow. >> Part of the profit from the oil he sells to the US is to compensate the oil sales to Nicaragua, Cuba and otherneedy countries for a quarter of the price of the market.   I don't think the US really harasses him. >> they have systematically fuelled/financed the opposition's cries for strikes against the Chavez politics. We need his oil and he needs our $$. So any tough talk from both sides is just a little show for the masses .   You take him too seriously.  >>> I wish I did. As I said I don't mind him support those left wing gov't of Latin America, but making technology pacts with Iran is very dumb. And I doubt the Bush admin appreciates, after he freely breaks the Cuban embargo by shipping oil for a few cigars, therefore allowing for the Castrist to survive longer

-------------
let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword

 

So to take all the media to himself or the universities doesn't matter much? this situation is worse than you all can imagine, and if you heard everything Chavez said, you'd be nodding

  

 

No idea. Is it?

 

http://media.guardian.co.uk/site/story/0,,2091018,00.html - http://media.guardian.co.uk/site/story/0,,2091018,00.html

 

 

 

I’m sure there are lots of communist colonels in the Cuban army too. The British ones are just another English peculiarity. If Colonel Chavez is a genuine communist it’s even worse as he possesses all dictatorial qualities needed for the job, just re-read Chus posts. Strangely you don’t see striking similarities between communism and your beloved religion. The same tactics – what’s written on paper is used to achieve ulterior individuals goals.

 

And again it seems Chavez is right, I think the rightwinged TV stations do have a secret agenda, which involves murdering Chavez.

 

My guess is there will be an assasination attempt at mr Chavez before the summer is over, i hope I'm wrong, but there are indications there will either bve a violent overtrow of the government with outside (read USA) help, or a murder (again facilitated by USA).

 

Shutting down dangerous propaganda vehicles is not a limitation of freedom of speech, in fact shutting these down will ensure freedom of speech.

 

Oh please, all that channel (Globovision) did was to put old images of the most important events that RCTV had covered throughout it's history (that included an assasination attempt to pope John Paul the II, AMONG OTHER THINGS like the arrival at the moon), and the music by Ruben Blades talked about hope, so Chavez is looking for the minimal excuse, searching for the cat's fifth leg, so he linked what was a product of randomness to say that the media is planning (or inspiring) an assasination attempt against him; he just wants to screw with the only honest channel left, so he can do whatever he wants with inmunity. Whoever believes that's true must not be right in the head, really (this is not personally regarding you, tux, just a general note, I suggest you read the entire article)

And their accusations are correct, the students were protesting pacifically, I know because I WAS THERE with them, when suddenly the so-called police started throwing tear-gas bombs and pellets to repress us. And yesterday another pacific march, when hordes of Chavez's minions started to cause distortion so the police had an excuse to repress. On tuesday around 50 underaged students were taken by the police just because they were in the midst of a pacific protest, and the authorities refused to let the parents feed/see them (and they are in the brink of being judged in a criminal court, which is meant to adults... they should be judged in a special court, although they shouldn't be judged for exterting their right to protest for freedom!) , and this morning 2 students from an university were shot in the head by Chavez's adepts (I don't know if it was the police or the civilians). Also, another horde of Chavecists were shooting FROM A GOVERNMENT BUILDING against the protestants; the video was shot by a common civilian, from a perfect angle.

 

EDIT: Something which I forgot to mention there was something that the private media didn't cover, consisting of a hostage situation we witnessed this morning at the Universitary Clinic in the "Universidad Central de Venezuela" (my university), in which the employers (Chavez's adepts) invaded the clinic in a violent way, putting at risk the lives of the patients and beating up medicine students and camera men from the only honest private channel left (Globovision), as well as calling the students imperialism pets, fascists, etc. supposedly, some students were also taken hostage in the clinic and there is a civil watch going on there. I couldn't stay longer because I am feeling a bit sick, but planning to go there tomorrow if the situation persists.

People who don't live in South America don't know the reality we live, if a military takes the Government he will surely:

 

It's yellow, has feathers and says quack...it's a duck.

 

Uses uniform and Presidential band...it's a dictator.

 

Iván

 

 

 

Ivan,

 

What is the piont of your fiery philippic?

 

I think Chus is saying it all along

 

 

I'm sure Ivàn agrees with Chus here, just backing his arguments.

 

And I think that Ivàn's post is almost perfectly outlining the SA situation re: dictators. Which indeed makes Chavez at least look like a potential dictator but certainly an autoritarian leader.

 

The only thing I'd like to point out is that dictators at one pouint or anoither confiscated the democratic process of their country (even Fujimori did, as he was elected first than took over), but Chavez has been elected twice, and nothing permits to say he will not allow future elections.  This is where I say that he is not YET a dictator, but he has strong tendencies to become one.

 

True, though doubts are that the election process was a clean one, remember that one of the biggest campaign marches in history was Rosales' one, and it was obvious that he was the favourite, just by moving that amount of people to the streets. There were irregularities in the process, some voters couldn't even speak spanish, to say one thing, ID's were duplicated, triplicated, quadruplicated, and it was obvious when you entered different ID's in the electoral registry site and the data was all the same, including the residency. It's easy to have a corrupt electoral process when you have all the powers in favour, including a General Prosecutor who was with the government party.

 

About what has happened until now: Last night, the 75 (they were 75 underaged students) were left free but with a warning. Also last night the Viceminister of National Security scheduled an appointment with some of the leaders of this protest (who are ALL students, not politicians) and when they arrived they were told to go back because the Viceminister had another appointment... very convenient.

 

Also abuse seems to come mostly outside Caracas, where more deaths had been registered because of this protest, and more police abuse. It's easy when Globovision (the only anti-Chavez channel left) was left without microwaves, as they were "confiscated" sometime ago.

 

Lech Walesa, Ghandi, Martin Luther King.... just some examples of pacific revolutions. Of course this doesn't mean we don't have a right to legitimate defense, but we try our best not to arise in violence

You speak much sense, but we are peaceful just because we want the International Community to help us, I also don't think that we could obtain those benefits only with our resistance, but I can't find another way to fight when we're not armed in any way with fire weapons (at least I'm not) and the Chavecists are armed with war weapons. It's a shame to depend on an international community that's not really that reliable

 

What I really meant to say is why fight at all? Those examples speak volumes. When the moment is right it all will be worked out.  The collapse of the Soviet block is the best proof of that. After all those years of civil strife it simply disintegrated, and Walesa and Vazlav Havel suddenly found themselves presidents of their respective countries to their total amazement. As opposed to being dissidents under house arrest or doing jail time.  

 

Protests and dissent don’t produce the desired results. So your fighting is just an exercise in futility, it’s not worth wasting your time. I don’t have any personal experience since I came of age in the 70’s, but if you ask the rebellious 60’s generation you could probably find no one having sweet memories about street fighting. You could hear, “it was nice listening to music,” or  “it was nice smoking pot,” or “it was nice making love,” but you could hardly find anybody saying, “it was nice to get beaten up at a demonstration.” And when your opponents are armed with war weapons, it makes this struggle not only futile but also mortally dangerous. No civil freedom is worth dying for (you could definitely find no one saying, “it was nice dying for freedom”).  So stay away from it Chus. And don’t count on the international community. All they can do to bring Chavez down is stop buying his oil but nobody will do that.

 

I don’t believe Venezuela is at that stage yet. And even in the communist countries rulers know that the population should be supplied all basic staples since the deficit of those will ultimately bring their demise. And with the oil dollars… With regard to prog, etc., there are always ways to get around official bans. Look at Iran. Only Taliban with their brutality succeeded in suppression of all human freedoms. But to compare with them, Chaves is benevolence itself.  And considering his age group, he must be, at the very least, a Beatles’ fan.

 

Chus, markosherrera,

 

Guys, I'm really sorry to hear that. Hope you and yours are alright.

 

IV

 

 

 

 

 

IVNORD wrote: [QUOTE=Chus] I think it's better than having a lifetime of hunger and undernourishment, like it's documented that happens in Cuba and those communist countries; this is not just about freedom of speech, they could also control what we eat, what we listen, what we see.... I can't live thinking about that sort of life in which also prog could be banned.. imagine that!!!

 

I don’t believe Venezuela is at that stage yet. And even in the communist countries rulers know that the population should be supplied all basic staples since the deficit of those will ultimately bring their demise. And with the oil dollars… Iran Talibans .... blablablabla... [/QUOTE]

 

 

I am going to look it up but I really think you've got your facts wrong here in terms of the indigenous populations including metis/mixed blood and their percentage. >>> don't forget they've never be counted before either, and they're crawling out of the bushes that served as their huts.

 

The rest of your post is even more questionable (even close to ridicule, no offence meant,  but just read what you've written). If you read such a newspaper that prints that garbage, I can't blame Chavez for closing it down, I'd even support it .

 

 

Plus being atheists does not mean being anti-catholics/christians (I add this christian mention because I think Venezuella is losing catholics by the tens of thousands to alternatives)

 

No, my friend. Those people were not amerindians, they came from foreign countries, perhaps Trinidad (some were dark-coloured who spoke english), Africa, etc. But amerindians they were not!

 

She was an officialist reporter, I think, the one who wrote that article, I don't think it was a private channel, really. She suggested all that. It's really understandable considering Chavez has attacked the church more than once, and he shares the ideology of Fidel in that every form of music coming from the 'empire' should be banned. I mean were people like Arturo Sandoval, Paquito D' Rivera, Pucho Escalante or Chucho Valdes allowed to play jazz in Cuba?

 

 

IVNORD wrote: Chus wrote: I think it's better than having a lifetime of hunger and undernourishment, like it's documented that happens in Cuba and those communist countries; this is not just about freedom of speech, they could also control what we eat, what we listen, what we see.... I can't live thinking about that sort of life in which also prog could be banned.. imagine that!!!   I don’t believe Venezuela is at that stage yet. And even in the communist countries rulers know that the population should be supplied all basic staples since the deficit of those will ultimately bring their demise. And with the oil dollars… Iran Talibans .... blablablabla... [/QUOTE]     Let's leave the Religion Dictatorships (although Iran is also a a democracy, but with result not pleasing us westerners) out of this discussion please.   Cuba has one of the healthiest population (it's not able to feed on McDonald grease pits) and one of the longest life expectancy, with a medical care not even close  to the toenail of what's done in Californian hospitals in terms of modern technology. But it is free and available to everyone. (So we all hear anyway)   Without the US embargo, the country would probably fare much better too.

-------------
Jesus Gabriel

I’m no expert on religious dictatorships. All I said was, with all the ideological bans in Iran, people still listen to rock and play soccer. But that’s a minor issue.

 

Now I’ve never experienced the Cuban healthcare system (thank God!) but I vividly remember all benefits of the Soviet one which by default must be superior to the Cuban and which was based not on knowledge and professionalism but on doctor’s compassion or lack of such. You were lucky if the doctor took interest in you since they had no other incentive to do a good job to retain you as a client. How about dentists inflicting pain on patients for the fun of it? Extractin a tooth vs. doing a root canal because it’s cheaper? Wiping your blood with your own handkerchief after a tooth extraction? (if you had none, bad luck). Doctors conducting weird experiments on orphaned infants? Sure thing, no accountability. I guess the Soviet Hippocratic Oath provided plenty of leeway for it. My childhood friend’s grandmother was given a wrong injection and died of it in the ambulance car. Anyone’s at fault? Human error, sh*t happens. Lack of hospital beds, medicine and equipment? Want more stories? Of course, all that expensive technology in California is not readily available to everyone, but it’s there and it gets available gradually when its cost decreases. The same way it’s available in Canada (or Belgium) for free, so Canadians cross the border to have a surgery in the US instead of waiting for years at home. Don't take everything leftist propaganda says for granted. 

 

Now what these guys write about Venezuelan affairs sounds somewhat familiar. So your threat to investigate markosherrera claims is rather ridiculous than malicious (and I’m saying it amicably) as you appear to be more of an honest victim of disinformation than a promoter of it. Although some things they say sound bizarre, I wouldn’t be surprised to learn they are real. Don’t you think they know it better living in the country vs you reading it on the internet? Regardless of their political stance.

 

 I am profoundly sorry for what’s happening to them. I personally wouldn’t resort to protest and fighting, but it’s just me. It emanates from my deep apathy and cynicism towards politics and power. But I don’t question their best intentions.

 

Man, that's a rich diet!!

 

How about people subsisting on bread and potatoes. McDonalds grease pits wuold be a treat.

 

I believe you are uying the propaganda, and THIS IS FALSE SEAN.

 

I been in Cuba TWICE and know it from very close.

 

I broke a tooth in the hotel adter a fight with a jealous husband (I didn't knew she was married until the husband came to the hotel ), and had an insurance (Assist Card) that covered me US$ 800.00 bucks per minor accident.

 

I went to the BEST hospital (Varadero is a touristic center where they have the best services for tourists who leave their dollars), it was depressing, a square room of 4 X 4 meters with a dentist chair in the center and surrounded by the patients (No waiting room).

 

Being foreigner and paying in cash I was the second to receive attention:

So, the story they have sold us is FALSE, medicine sucks in Cuba, people die every day wi6th a simple pneumonia, despíte Europe gives them first line antibiotics that are sold in the black market IN DOLLARS (Nobody accepts Pesos) and only a small percentage goes to the hospitals and clinics 

 

This guy is a doctor and he told me the numbers are FALSE, they manipulate the information hidding the sick people in terrible places.

 

Please guys, when you listen this wonderful stories of miracle medicine or romantic revolutions, investigate and you'll find most are false and the romantic revolutuions are Dictator getting rich and giving scraps to the poor people and stying with the donations..

 

Nobody told me, I been there.

 

Iván

 

Ollanta Humala, a former lieutenant colonel in the Peruvian army, finished first in Peru's presidential balloting on Sunday, though he'll face a runoff. He's usually called a nationalist or a populist in the media, but those terms may be concealing something even uglier. I read this http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/09/AR2006040900282.html - in the Washington Post on Monday: His father, Isaac Humala, is a former professor and communist leader who founded an ultra-nationalist political movement that advocates replacing the European-descended elite in Peru with leaders of indigenous descent. Hang on - that movement sounds more racialist than "nationalist". I think liberal reporters just can't bring themselves to describe a leftist as a racist, even when accurately describing his views. Indeed, a little research confirms the racial nature of the Humalas' ideas. Ollanta Humala, his father, and his brother have all been leaders of the Movimiento Etnocacerista, a word that combines ethnic identity with the group's admiration for 19th-century nationalist leader Andres Avelino Caceres. Peruvian novelist Mario Vargas Llosa http://www.la-razon.com/versiones/20060115_005422/nota_246_238237.htm - has sharply criticized Humala for his racial views. In Wikipedia's translation, he wrote that in Isaac Humala's vision "Peru would be a country where only copper-skinned Andeans would have Peruvian nationality. The rest, white, black or yellow, would only be 'citizens' who would have a limited set of rights." Humala's campaign promises of redistribution, nationalization, and withdrawal of Peru from the world economy would be bad enough. But even leftists should be embarrassed to find their economic nostrums keeping such company.

 

 

But that's not all:

 

Peru (where Ollanta Humala will get elected president, his program includes shooting gays, white people, and starting a war with Chile)

 

Chavez support was a scandal, used his media to insult all the other candidates and despite the OEA told him to stop participating is foreign elections he continued doing it:

 

He even threatened the Përuvians if Hulama was not elected: 

 

Chavez said:

Si por obra del demonio el señor el señor García llega a ser elegido presidente del Perú voy a retirar mi embajador, porque con un presidente así, Venezuela no va a tener relaciones con el Perú"   TRANSLATION   "If by act of the devil Mr Garcia iis elected President of Perú, I'm going to retire the Venezuelan Ambassador, because with that kind of Presaident Venesuela is not going to have relations with Perú     http://serdna1.blogspot.com/2006/04/hugo-chvez-y-ollanta-humala-vs-alan.html - http://serdna1.blogspot.com/2006/04/hugo-chvez-y-ollanta-humala-vs-alan.html

 

Of course Humala lost and Chavez did nothing because he needs to keep relationds in Perú to sell us his pseudo revolution

 

Who in hell is this guy to interfere in our elections?????????

 

Isn't it casual that Chavez supports Humala who is:

I'm szd for Venezuela, but I don't want Chavez messing in my country business, he's noopdy in Perú,

 

Freedom from Fujimori has costed us a lot, we don't want to loose it in hands of a foreign dictator..

 

Iván

 

Exactly, as I said, you have to listen to what Chavez says in Venezuela, not what he says in other continents

 

He also put Venezuela as neutral state in the fight against the Colombian guerrillas, when it's obvious they're not belligerent but downright terrorists. And yes he also has the fame of interfering in other countries' business, while he gets irritated when another country talks about ours.

 

 

 

 

Ivàn, I still remembered that story, from last time , but do you honestly think that whatever happened to you happens to everyone there. There are hundreds of thousands of European tourists going to Cuba every year, and unlike when going to Dominican Republic, they can go almost every place and not be agreesed because most cubans are much friendlier than Dominicans, Jamaicans, Haitians

 

 

Please no contradict me on this issue, my brother was there last year and a step sister of mine three years ago and their stories are more or less the same. >> Yes the people are fairly hungry and poor , but it is the economy that is dead, precisely because of the embargo happening for the last few decades.

 

 

 

IVNORD wrote: Now I’ve never experienced the Cuban healthcare system (thank God!) but I vividly remember all benefits of the Soviet one which by default must be superior to the Cuban and which was based not on knowledge and professionalism but on doctor’s compassion or lack of such. You were lucky if the doctor took interest in you since they had no other incentive to do a good job to retain you as a client. How about dentists inflicting pain on patients for the fun of it? Extractin a tooth vs. doing a root canal because it’s cheaper? Wiping your blood with your own handkerchief after a tooth extraction? (if you had none, bad luck). Doctors conducting weird experiments on orphaned infants?  The same way it’s available in Canada (or Belgium) for free, so Canadians cross the border to have a surgery in the US instead of waiting for years at home. Don't take everything leftist propaganda says for granted. >>> As I said we don't know any better, whether be you or I. I hear/see sources from documentaries and others TV programs telling us it is so (and this is from people having visited or even living there).   Not about to give those documentaries any less credit than the link you gave (which is US-based when the only thing the US is worried about is doing away with the Castrists. And if anyone tells me the White House is not worried about it everyday, they just had a meeting two days ago with Spain to talk about it and couldn't agree on anything. Bush is pissing himself ten times a day over the Cuban Crisis. Clinton couldn't have cared lass, since it was a Cuban ciggie up Monica's twàt.   Now what these guys write about Venezuelan affairs sounds somewhat familiar. So your threat to investigate markosherrera claims is rather ridiculous than malicious (and I’m saying it amicably) as you appear to be more of an honest victim of disinformation than a promoter of it.  >>> Hang on a second I may not live in the country but as stated above I have been there (and all over the Andes) yet the only thing I can tell you is that Amerindians were/are not getting better treatment than the Sioux or the Aborigens from Australia, >>> YET they are people too, they are supposedly citizens. They are voluntarily despised from Conquistador descendence and voluntarily forgotten by the middle class and the Establishment.   Marcos, Chus and Ivàn are all at least middle class, and the first sign of it being that they have Internet access. Something than an estimated 45 millions Indios in South America don't have. It takes once in a while a rocker like Sting to bring some Chief Raonis to world fame (his mostly).   Yes South America might just be facing another tentative upheaval in some (less-than) two decades, unless countries where they are a majority start advancing. In Guatemala, Indios are over 70% of population. I won't look for Ecuador or Bolivia (let you do it) but my educated guess is somewhere between 40 to 60% of population.   Venezuella's geography is amazingly still completely undiscovered and most likely even Chavez has no real idea of how many Indios there are in his country.  But that's his main support and he's getting the majority in every elections, and should there be more, most likely it will be reelected. I read an article a few months ago (I believe it was in A Le Monde Diplomatique-related publications >>> and this THE international French speaking reference) that over 90 % of Venezuellans never saw the Orenoque river from their own eyes or went to see the Tepuis (those amazing plateaus), even from afar.  The country's population lives on the coast and the inner land is only for mining companies, ready to exterminates Indios for a few emeralds, manganese, beauxites and Germanium >>> this last material is extremely rare and much needed in electronics and the Silicon valley is considering this as theirs. >>> that's a reality too.     Although some things they say sound bizarre, I wouldn’t be surprised to learn they are real. Don’t you think they know it better living in the country vs you reading it on the internet? Regardless of their political stance. I am profoundly sorry for what’s happening to them. I personally wouldn’t resort to protest and fighting, but it’s just me. It emanates from my deep apathy and cynicism towards politics and power. But I don’t question their best intentions. >> I wouldn't want to appear anyless sorry for then and their country (I have family in Columbia and some far relatives in Caracas myself >> they are the one who greeted me on the South American continent some 25 years and more ago) than you are.   I know that they are concerned for their well being, and in case you'd care to know, I am too (although this is extremely easy for me to say from my Brussels Internet shop) and more so for them,than for those society outcasts , simply for the fact that I know them at least a little bit through whatever communications we've had through this forum.   As I said above I don't like the way Chavez's been turning recently, but I am not sure he really knows where he's heading anymore, either. But the CIA is doing everything for this situation to happen. They consider Latin America as their backyards and have done many more upheavals over centuries than Wakeman did departure from Yes >>> Wow!!! That much?!?!

-------------
let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword

 

Thanks for finally addressing this issue.

 

Indeed with previous administration, they never felt the need to enlist those tribes living in the jungle, and indeed a lot of these tribes are hostile to those living on the coast. For obvious reasons too, that they know that someday, they will be "removed" from their Ancestral grounds for mineral exploitations. The Orenoque/Orinico valley is pure geological treasure and soon or later it will be destroyed by capitalist apetites.

 

I think this is why they (the Indios) feel they must take act into worrying of politics before politics worry about them.

 

 

As for Ancestral customs, this is indeed a problem (do we let Afgans refugees in Europe force the Burqas on their wives, simply because this is a religius traditions????).

 

Are you sure that those tribes being so much into respecting their environement and even going as far as thanking the prey they killed and will eat to survive, that they apply torture and death sentences. Not in the documentaries I've seen. They might kill someone from Caracas as an enemi of their welfare, but a fellow tribesman???

 

I second that, Chavez has imported lots of cuban doctors (who don't even know what a disposable needle is) and many that were attended by those medics were in the brink of dying after treatment, and they were in for minor issues. I know of one case in which a woman almost becomes quadriplegic after seeing a cuban doctor.

 

And regarding amerindian cultures, they're very varied, some are very harsh and vengative to say the least, others are more pacifists; as I said, they are unpredictable

What do you expect Chus?  they don't have experience:

 

The general salary in Cuba is 140 Pesos (I believe it's 20 pesos for dollar), for the Doctor, Engeneer or Architect the same as the guy who ties Cohiba cigars.

 

If you are young and good looking, you go to the hotels, they hire you for the same 140 pesos but you can take the food left from the Buffett in the night to your house (A lot is left), you may receive a tip despite it's strictly forbidden (I gave US$ 30.00 to a girl that gcleaned my room and only accepted because she knew I'm from Perú, she told me it was 4 months salary).

 

And at last, they have the chance to marry a tourist (I seen two marriages in the time I was there).

 

So the girl who made my bed was an engineer, the one that cleaned the bathroom was a doctor, please, cleaning toillets you don't get medical experience.

 

I don't know if it's the same but in the Patrice Lumumba University in USSR the doctors studied Marxism as  60% of the subjects (My best friend went to give some lectures from his university and the guys were amazed how much he knew being a Resident only),........ 40% of a career is not enough, I guess Cuba s the same.

 

So lets not believe in mytths.

 

Iván

cavities ,but  I  cant extract, go to a private   doctor  ,the cuban doctors are good for first help but not for  special attention  )                                                        My friends    I am an independent   left wing     democratic    ,if chavez make something good I am the first in recognize that    ,but if he make an error   I am the first in attack                                                                                                                                                             I LOVE   INDIAN CULTURE  ,     ART,   FOOD,  MUSIC   I   KNOW ALL THE STATES  Of     vENEZUELA  AND   I    SWIMED  IN  Orinoco   river   and  TALK   WITH PEMON   INDIANS    ,the  mother  of  my  daughter  is   from   Peru   Huancayo(indian)                                                                                                                                                                              I    WANT   A   GOVERMENT    THAT   GIVE   MORE    OPORTUNITIES    TO   THE   POOR   PEOPLE    ,FREE EDUCATION,AND HEALTH AND COMBAT MONOPOLIES        I  am  100% HETEROSEXUAL  , but  I  defend and respect  the rights  of  LESBIANS   and   HOMOSEXUALS ,         I am   catholic   and    I defend    the   RIGHT    of   babies   ,for   this   I    believe    that    ABORT    is    KILL    ,I am     anti imperialist    ,and believe     that     Bush    is    like    Devil ,   and     I    want that     stop   the    invasion     of     Irak     ,I      BELIEVE THAT    JEWS     ARE GOOD PEOPLE    AND GIVE GREAT CONTRIBUTIONS TO HUMANITY     LIKE jESUS    ,Einstein,    Mendelsohn,     etc etc  and holocaust was horrible     ,but     I    DEFEND THE RIGHT OF pALESTINIANS      AND LEBANESES(  ,BUT NOT  THE TERRORIST )                                                       WELL   IF   THE     MEMBERS    READ   MY     POSTS ,           they    can    see    that  I   am   progresist,    I   DEFEND    the    right    of     animals           I     AM       Ecologist      etc                 BUT....BUT...THE FREEDOM    IS   TOO     IMPORTANT  ,I  cant defend     when     a     president     close     one    channel     of      TV ,      A radio or a  magazINE      because is oposition,     or think different,      or     when say    that      will change      the religion     , that is bad  desire    progress    and     live   better,                                                          .                              ..In    Cuba    is     better    be   stranger      than   Cuban    ...there   are    beach    for     tourists(the bests)   and   other for   cubans   ,    ice cream    stores     for tourists     and other for Cubans.   .I   have one sister       married with a cuban       living here in Venezuela,     he tell all the problems of  Cuba      imagine a country with    only     one kind of soap    ,dental past,      food  etc           ,he only could eat a chocolat for first time   AT  24                                                                                                  I     want  a socialism more or less like the sistem of Norway,  Danemark     ,etc         ,but not the stalinism of   Cuba                                      .today      I LISTENED cHAVEZ        SAYING     THAT     jESUCRIST      WAS      ONLY     A     SUPERMAN   comUnist    LIKE       cHE      gUEVARA   ...........................................     Sean     here   is imposible     and     indian revolution     they    are fews,(1.5%)            the politics,    talk     against           whites or SIMILARS    ,only because     they have   hate in their hearts    ,for me     we have a bigger       heritage from europe and africa ,      that from our indians that I love and respect      and have all the  right to maintain theirs culture    ,identity,   but  I  dont      like        that make obligatory to all the       95% of the rest of population LEARN INDIAN LANGUAGE ,                                                                                                Some people believe that are ridicules or malicious my comments,but are true.................I         KNOW OTHER COUNTRIES  making tourism  but   i cant say that I know how is live  and work    in that countries, ... each is too different of other, ..        ...      someone    can    say     that    I   dont like what is making Chavez   now  ,because I am a part of media class etc    ,no ....  I live  in  my  own  little  apartment,  and   have   a little   renault    TWINGO 2003    but    after   years    of   sacrifice.

 

Markos, I'd love to read you (and respond to your certainly very meaningful post) , but I can't bring myself to do it because it looks like a big square box full of letters. Could you please use paragraphs?  It would certainly help.

 

Sorry , the last thing I want to do is hurt you, as you're probably hurting enough already from the state of your country.

 

When that happens, the dictatorship will be consumated. There's no stopping him now, unless the military reacts or the international community acts quickly.

 

Amazing, without having seen the video, and because I'm familiar with Rubemn Blades great music, I guiess the song was El Padre Antonio y el Monaguillo Andrés dedicated to Father Arnulfo Romero.

 

Thuis is outrageous, Dictators are all the same, there's no connection between John Paul II or Father Arnulfo Romero with Chavez (Thanks God for that).

 

Probably he will close Globovisión and all the free media.

 

Iván

 

 

Sean, you don’t have to be so defensive (as I’ve said before I like radicals and liberals as they are usually honest but thoroughly confused, unrealistic  and naïve) . You accused markosherrera of spreading rumors. If you  prefer TV programs to eyewitness accounts it’s your business. I just pointed out that it looks a bit arrogant. I don’t doubt you wishing them all the best. And I see you showng much warmth in you last post because of her leftist stand I guess.

Sean Trane wrote: IVNORD wrote: Now I’ve never experienced the Cuban healthcare system (thank God!) but I vividly remember all benefits of the Soviet one which by default must be superior to the Cuban and which was based not on knowledge and professionalism but on doctor’s compassion or lack of such. You were lucky if the doctor took interest in you since they had no other incentive to do a good job to retain you as a client. How about dentists inflicting pain on patients for the fun of it? Extractin a tooth vs. doing a root canal because it’s cheaper? Wiping your blood with your own handkerchief after a tooth extraction? (if you had none, bad luck). Doctors conducting weird experiments on orphaned infants?  The same way it’s available in Canada (or Belgium) for free, so Canadians cross the border to have a surgery in the US instead of waiting for years at home. Don't take everything leftist propaganda says for granted. >>> As I said we don't know any better, whether be you or I. I hear/see sources from documentaries and others TV programs telling us it is so (and this is from people having visited or even living there).   Not about to give those documentaries any less credit than the link you gave (which is US-based when the only thing the US is worried about is doing away with the Castrists. And if anyone tells me the White House is not worried about it everyday, they just had a meeting two days ago with Spain to talk about it and couldn't agree on anything. Bush is pissing himself ten times a day over the Cuban Crisis. Clinton couldn't have cared lass, since it was a Cuban ciggie up Monica's twàt.         As I said above I don't like the way Chavez's been turning recently, but I am not sure he really knows where he's heading anymore, either. But the CIA is doing everything for this situation to happen. They consider Latin America as their backyards and have done many more upheavals over centuries than Wakeman did departure from Yes >>> Wow!!! That much?!?!

 

 

How can I fight such bad faith.

 

I could've gone on and discussed point by point, but claiming everything goes to Fidel is not only but it dircredits the rest of your post >> the drops that overflows the bucket . No offence meant, Ivàn.

 

Cuba is certainly not perfect: I'd say they are in an unenviable position, and I would not like being Cuban, but most of what's wrong there (outside Castro himself) is due to foreign elements (you know the huge country the size of a continent that swore it would eradicate the tiny island).

 

I don't hold much esteem for Castro or other dictatorian regimes, but I noticed there are always threads about Cuba and other Communist-tending regime, but I have yet to read something on Panama's regime (just to mention that one >> Salvador or Honduras anyone??? No ???? I thought so!!! ).

Betcha the Panameans are as hungry and don't live quite as long as Cubans.

 

 

 

 

As for my brother and cousin (female, two kids and not lesbian, so she's not going for the cheap sex), I've seen the pictures of their travel and they usually travel the way I do >> they avoid palaces. They didn't go there to play pancakes on the beach or screw Cuban hookers/housewives/single girls, they visited the country from favellas to those Batista-regime mansions (being renovated to accomodates rich capitalists clients who want to get cheap but healthy hookers and spend as little as possible) with their whole families, they always felt safe and the kids came back knowing what a poor country looks like, and they are very much appreciative of how European democracies work.

 

Thanks for the selfishness of my brother.

 

 

 

BTW, for a colleague of mine told me yesterday that his holidays in Dominica cost him 20% more than his Cuban holidays (not 140% as you say), but he was constantly advised not to wander from the beaten path. Which means he was unable to visit the place and actually see how the people lived.

 

He is a diver and dreams of retiring in Jamaica, and has shown me the ghetto he wants to retire in >> a fortress.   Listen to 10CC's Bloody Tourists. There are places in most of the island  where they kill you for just having a little too whiter shade of pale, even if you don't hve a present from your mother to take away.

 

This is all just nice and spirited talk similar to that of liberal professors in US universities. While condemning imperialism, they don’t bother to acknowledge the fact that their well-being (even the chance to criticize) is a product of that imperialism. They talk about poor coffee farmers in Guatemala while sipping coffee in their air-conditioned classrooms without realizing they would have had to pick those coffee beans themselves if not for those farmers.

 

Here’s a bit of reality. Yes, Amerindians are people too but the global economy doesn’t have a proper place for them yet, like it or not. If history is any guidance, just some 100 years ago, workers all throughout the world lived no better than coffee farmers today. Yet it wasn’t the class struggle, street fighting or benevolent rulers who changed it, but advances in technology and science and the mass markets (read the Economy). The increases in industrial output produced the need for mass consumption and increase of buying power of the working class to become the mass consumer. Since there’s no need today in Guatemalan farmer becoming a mass consumer, there;s nothing you can do about it. At best, you can try to educate them, but you will have to part with all the niceties provided by the European socialism, which too, by the way, lives nicely at the expense of the third world.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Of course they say there are no homeless!!!!

 

Regular store in Downtoan Havana, only for Cubans

 

 

 

Still people trust in cupons for rations

 

http://www.netforcuba.org/InfoCuba-EN/CubainPictures/00255-pueblo-market.jpg">

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And they say:

 

 

 

Iván

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

IVNORD wrote:   This is all just nice and spirited talk similar to that of liberal professors in US universities. While condemning imperialism, they don’t bother to acknowledge the fact that their well-being (even the chance to criticize) is a product of that imperialism. They talk about poor coffee farmers in Guatemala while sipping coffee in their air-conditioned classrooms without realizing they would have had to pick those coffee beans themselves if not for those farmers.   Not being a coffee drinker (but a major tea drinker, though), I could get off easily from thisubject, but I won't. I always have a coffe pack in my house in case I have visitors (and once they leave, I give the coffee pack that remains to my girlfriend who drinks it no problems) and its brandname is Max Havelaar. It's about fair trade (the way Oxfam works too)  and giving the most possible to the grower, while limiting the profits from the international brokers and speculators.   Two downnotes: 1- it is giving a bit too easily a good conscience while retaining my almost "bourgeois" (self-derision her) lifestyle 2- the quality is not always that good and uneven from one pack to the other.       Here’s a bit of reality. Yes, Amerindians are people too but the global economy doesn’t have a proper place for them yet, like it or not.>>> It looks like in the US, the Amerindians are now finding their niches (even if they live off those friggin Casinos). My idea is to really integrate them in modern society, not by being Amerindians reserves museum display, but by sharing the wealth of the soils they occupy. Nigeria (and Darfour in Sudan) is always taking the richness of the soil (oil in both cases) but instead of sharing the wealth (by offering them jobs, for ex) the pipeline sully the land and the petrol leaves the place and there is no return. This could be avoided in the yet largely unexploited interor of Venezuela Orinoco valley. I still believe Chavez is honest about this, being of Amerindian styock himself. Although he dons the military vest, he left the army a long time ago, having himself participated in a coup in the early 90's.   If history is any guidance, just some 100 years ago, workers all throughout the world lived no better than coffee farmers today. Yet it wasn’t the class struggle, street fighting or benevolent rulers who changed it, but advances in technology and science and the mass markets (read the Economy). The increases in industrial output produced the need for mass consumption and increase of buying power of the working class to become the mass consumer. >>> What a short circuit you take, my fiend>> you get disqualified in a F1 grand prix for skipping half the circuit)!! how do you get mass consumption if the working class doesn't have the money to spend. The working class managed to get the money because of minimal wages, regular and limited working time frames, Vacation pay as well as the time for the vacation. >> these were not offered to the workers graciously by the employers, it had to be torn away from them by left wingers, yet the bosses are still as rich nowadays, but at least the middlke and working classes are not thinking about revolution anymore. So sharing suits the capitalist as well.        Since there’s no need today in Guatemalan farmer becoming a mass consumer, there;s nothing you can do about it.What!!!  And if the farmer got correct price for his coffee, not being strangled by the speculator (who is sitting in world trade center towers, counting away his billions acquired at the expense of Guatemaleans farmers), he'd have money to spare to become a consumer, buy stuff in his country and get the economy a boost     At best, you can try to educate them, but you will have to part with all the niceties provided by the European socialism, which too, by the way, lives nicely at the expense of the third world. Actually if it was up to right wing politics alone, the help towards third world countries would quickly be dcreased by 90% ot its actual level, unless there was a return in it for them

 

Sean Trane wrote: [   >> it goes into the running of the system, which is terribly inefficient, no one ever said the contrary.   No Sean, apparently goes to: The Cuban companies (Which appear in no Cuban registry) in the Free Zone of Panama with US$ 300'000,000 of capital. The money has been moved with signature of Delia Soto, Viklma Espin, Raul Castro and his sons. Raul Castro owns the monopoly of stock change. The Private Illiuchin Jet with a price of US$ 100'000,000 The private flete oof Mercedes that Fidel doesbn't hide. Ramon Castro has an extense agricultural Province i n Valle de la Picadura Source:  http://www.contrapeso.info/articulos.php?id_sec=5&id_art=1930 - http://www.contrapeso.info/articulos.php?id_sec=5&id_art=1930  You're making Castro sound like he's ripping his people off and lives in palaces like Saddam Hussein did with huge cars and private militias. If that was the case, the whole planet would know and the Bush administration and the Miami Cubans would definitely exploit this   The whole planet knows, Fidel has a 2,500 bodyguard fleete and his brother Raul is very similar, but of course being Cubans there's no money invoilved or very little.   To the Government ruled by Fidel with no elections for almost 5 decades, for the person that ruined the country.    >> it goes into the inefficient system and the renovation of roads and historical buildings. You one-sided photo montage forgot to show those newly renovated Batista haciendas nd the new buildings were Cubans are allowed. You're sounding like you are of the Bush administration and systematically avoiding the other side of the picture.   Sean I been there, nobody told me, those hotels are not buit oin Bartsta haciendas, most ofthem were created from nothing in the extense shore Cuba has.   The city is a mess, nobody toldd me, I seen it personally.     >>> He's certainly no worse than Battista was. Battista was almost a slave enforcer, the country was a puppet of the US, where casina and brothels were the only thing working beside the tobacco industry. Why do you think Castro is still in place? Because the Cuban people know the ones looking to down him would start this slaver all over again. The Cubans of Miami and Cosa Nostra >> no difference. Look how Miami has become a crime capital of the US, and no wonder Cubans don't want them to return.   They'd rather be poor, not exactly  free than belong under a Battistan regime again. Or else they'd have overturned a long time ago a joke of an army that parades on bikes to save gas and grossly under-equipped.   Nobody says that Batista or Somoza were great men, but this doesn't justify and endless dictatorship of 5 decades with very klittle or bno respect for human rights.   CUBA WAS A CLOSED WHOREHOUSE FOR KKK MEMBERS UNDER BATTISTA!!!   Now is an open whorehouse      OK Ivàn!!! , please tell this ignorant geopolitical freak exactly what resources Cuba has!!! That is  outside sugar (the prices are so low), the best tobacco (that is not allowed in the biggest market) and beaches. There are no mineral riches to speak off and the cheap labour cannot be exploited by foreign companies if they open up a factory there, the firm automatically loses the US market. Don't you see the whole thing is done so that Cuba can't work? Cuba surviving this evil set up is a daily miracle.      I don't deny the USA embargo has made the situation worst, but Turism alone is enough resource to survive, Ciuba is a paradise, there's is sugar, there is Tobacco, Coffee, etc that could reach the restof the woirld if Fidel leaves     >> Cuba has been a family destination for the last 15 years from Europe    If you ever went to Varadero you will notice almost no kids, people is between lets say 20 and 50, this is not a family destiny.     >> Hang on those luxury hotels are for foreigner only so the whores, can't get in. You make yourself sound like you went to Cuba for cheap sex and got beaten by a jealous husband. You sure you paid the hooker at all? >>> just a quick jab below your belt here   No cuban woman can enter to a hotel Sean, seems you don't know that, but it's one of the most strict laws there. I never been with a hooker in my whole life, this is offensive, yes I got involved with a tourist in the hotel on my first trip (In the second one I went with a girlfriend) and honestly being single I can do whatever I want with my life, but this doesn't mean I would get near a hooker.   If it was Cuban hooker probably the poor husband woukld had never known because as I said NO CUBANS ARE ALLOWED IN THE HOTELS AND THAT'S STRICT.   During the second trip I was in the Mellia Hotel while in the Super Club there was a Single Convention for people around the world, they didn't required a hooker, all the people had gone for fun, I met a group of Peruvians in La Havana and they told me they had a wild travel without ever leaving the hotel and without local people.    > it is more the rule than the exception. And I never read posts where you denounce Thailand for this >>> Oh wait Thailand is a US ally, they can do no wrong, right???!!!   I never been in Thailand Sean, but I'm against any form of prostitution in any part ff the world, more if minors are involved.   >> this is to avoid under-aged prostitution and allow those dirty exploiters to act without shame. most hotels would be completely stupid not to allow families. Evenb a lawyer can understand that!!!   The hotels in Varadeo (BEACH FOR YOUNG PEOPLE MOSTLY) know that their target public are not the families, the system is all included, they earn nothing with families, but surely are a  destiny for thousands of young people trying to have fun.   It's like the hotels during Spring Break in Florida, their business is not in the families, only that in Varadero lasts all year.   The hortels in the city, those that charge you for everything you eat or drink, admit kids becaiuse they hava a family business.   BTW: Varadero hotels are 100% full all the year with no kids, only couples or singles, no problem with underage prostitution because as I said NO CUBANS ARE ALLOWED IN TH HOTELS, under or over age.   . >> Ivàn, feel free to check tour operators departring from Europe and check out the price for a two week holiday for four (two kids) and compare prices between Dominica and Cuba, including the plane fare. The whole thing is almost the same price and knowing Dominica is dangerous for families and Cuba is safe for families , the choice is evident.   The hotel issue is the same, all included system, but as I repeated twice, if you leave the hotel and go to any turistic place the prices are around 10% or 20% the proice in any other destiny.   . >> I'm not even goinfg to touch that one with a ten-foot pole!!! Too easy, and you'll get upset!!   What's strange? Can't you go to a good restaurant, a disco or a Cabarette without having to pay $ 500, I don't go to sleep at 8:00 PM and stay all day in the beach, I could do that in Puerto Palmeras im my own country.   This doesn't mean I go for prostitution.   , Compare Cuba to what's comparable >> neighbouring countries is fair, comparing it to California is not!!! What bugs the Anti Castrist is that nopt only Cuba is still alive, but it is faring better than Haiti, Jamaica, Dominica.   This is also similar for Nicaragua fariung as well as US friendly Hoinduras and Salvador or Panama (who should be doing well since they recuperated the canal, but they are not doing better>> I on't read a single line from you even when I bring the subject)   Despite all the problems, their situation is not as terrible as the Cuban and more important they are not used as an example of a system siupposedly fair and with respect for human rights.    Hundreds of place where you can dive other than the Carribeans. But divers are usually males travelling in groups and looking for cheap sex. My colleague makes no exception to that. This is why he wants to retire in Jamaica.   Welll, Jamaica is a destiny to be avoided as I told you before.    >>> In Dominica they would've robbed you blind and in Jamaica, YOU'd have been the supper!!! Jamaicans, Panameans, Guatemaleans, Dominicans, Venezuellians and Peruvians all deserve MUCH better.  And it will be fine once a certain country stop meddling in what they consider THEIR backyard.   That's something I will give to Cuba, seccurity for the tourist, you are sure you're not going to be robbed because the laws to protect their basic resource of dollars are absolutely Draconian.     Does this start to appear like the good old times or is it just me?   Yes, it looks like the good old past, but please, don't accuse me of fomenting prostitution because that was cheap, I believe it's a business so dirty it has to be banned around the world, including Thailand where is an industry   You get the red for communists   No, I leave you that one   Iván

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Of course, it wasn’t offered graciously, but the leftists credit themselves with “tearing it away”  way too excessively, as you just did. They accelerated the events, but most certainly did not solely achieve it as they love to say. Their greatest contribution was the series of revolutions in Europe after the WW I (though not in the sense you think of it). It demonstrated that opportunists could displace the upper class and expropriate their capital. But while the big money still had a muscle to suppress a few revolutions in the same manner as some 70 years before, it deemed it economically unwise to do so. Because by the end on the 19 century the advances in technology allowed  increased production thus creating the base for mass markets. Particularly food became more plentiful, and unlike the events of the mid-19 century when starving the poor or killing them on the barricades produced the same end result,  the 20 century offered some hope as there was more to share. Mass markets did not appear overnight, but all the benefits of socialism like minimum wages and paid vacations did not advance the cause a tiny notch. It’s a myth. To the contrary, they feed inflation if you think of it. When the labor markets were tight in the 90’s, they were paying double the minimum wage to bus boys at McDonalds. And when Ford began paying his workers $5 per day at the turn of the century when an average worker’s salary was $120-150 per YEAR, they did not think about limited working time and paid vacations and were able to buy his Model-T instead. But the bottom line is that it happened when there was a material base for it, not at the time of the French revolution nor the Paris Commune. So we’re back to square one – all demonstrations, fighting and other commotions are futile.

 

Sean, you have little understanding how the commodities futures markets work. Some speculators make 50-100-200% on their investment, but it has very little impact on both the farmer and consumer. It's like separate money. For example, back in 96 when coffee prices shot up to $3 (from 50 cents), the manufacturers raised the prices by 15-20 cents on average. The manufacturers use the futures to hedge. Never mind. What you';re referring to is the tremendous overhead created by the functions of the economy and it's unavoidable. I don;t know the figures for coffee per se, but a corn farmer in the US gets about 2-3% of the money a box of cornflakes fetches at the supermarket (between 6-7 cents per pound, sold at $3 per box). It makes me sick to think of all that waste like catchy packaging and commecial advertising I am paying for, but that's the way it is. The producer profits are normally below 10%. Then come supermarkets, wholesalers, distributors, you name it, but their total take as pure profits is less than 20%. It just represents enormous amounts of money thanks to the mass markets.

 

Chus, how are things?

Sean Trane wrote: [   OK Ivàn!!! , please tell this ignorant geopolitical freak exactly what resources Cuba has!!! That is  outside sugar (the prices are so low), the best tobacco (that is not allowed in the biggest market) and beaches. There are no mineral riches to speak off and the cheap labour cannot be exploited by foreign companies if they open up a factory there, the firm automatically loses the US market. Don't you see the whole thing is done so that Cuba can't work? Cuba surviving this evil set up is a daily miracle.

 

BTW, ever thought why they pay 5 cents to the coffee farmer for a pound of beans and $50 per hour to the engineer designing the equipment to process those beans?

 

Incredibly in their houses with the knowledge of the family, they have to survive and this is unfair

 

I talked with an agent who told me how hard it was for this people since prostitution was turned into a crime with prison.

 

BTW: Varadero is not a whorehouse, it's only a Beach complex of hotels for people between 20 and 50. The biggest hotels are there now.

 

Iván

 

 

I for one buy my coffe at fair market and roast it myself via popcorn popper, its cheaper, better for the farmers, and last but not least it tastes better!

 

I buy the beans at:http: //www.sweetmarias.com/

F-uc you