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topographicbroadways
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Joined: May 20 2010
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Posted: August 05 2010 at 10:38 |
In Britain it is implied Muslims are discriminated but a lot of them actually discriminate themselves by intentionally separating themselves from every other community so a ban like this although rash could actually help communities become more unified
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Mr ProgFreak
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Posted: August 05 2010 at 10:45 |
^ It's ironic to see many non-Muslims fight for a pluralistic society and specifically for trying to appease Islamists in the process, when all the Islamists want is to abolish pluralism.
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The T
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Posted: August 05 2010 at 10:48 |
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The T wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The T wrote:
What victory Pat... What battle I would ask. I have said they just shouldn't build it there but they have the right to do so. In this case it's just my opinion. There is no constant contest between us (that sounded awkward though). |
Battle is a harsh word, but we are debating presumably.
We agree that they're within their rights to build there, but still disagree about whether it's a good idea. I find it comforting to know we can stand opposed to each other even when we agree. |
Ok. But why is it a good idea? |
Because I'm assuming the demand for a Muslim center is high in the area. In which case, it's a good idea to meet people's demands most efficiently.
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Oh come on, economic considerations always above anything else?
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Trademark
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Joined: November 21 2006
Location: oHIo
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Points: 1009
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Posted: August 05 2010 at 10:58 |
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
Mr ProgFreak wrote:
^ Every Muslim who thinks that Muslims are superior to other people should be at odds with Libertarians (and vice versa).
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Why?
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Because Libertarians (and some Germans) feel EXACTLY the same way. God help us all if there are Libertarian Germans. 
Edited by Trademark - August 05 2010 at 10:59
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The T
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Posted: August 05 2010 at 11:31 |
No... God help us if there are Libertarian Muslims...
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Equality 7-2521
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Joined: August 11 2005
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Posted: August 05 2010 at 12:29 |
The T wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The T wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The T wrote:
What victory Pat... What battle I would ask. I have said they just shouldn't build it there but they have the right to do so. In this case it's just my opinion. There is no constant contest between us (that sounded awkward though). |
Battle is a harsh word, but we are debating presumably.
We agree that they're within their rights to build there, but still disagree about whether it's a good idea. I find it comforting to know we can stand opposed to each other even when we agree. |
Ok. But why is it a good idea? |
Because I'm assuming the demand for a Muslim center is high in the area. In which case, it's a good idea to meet people's demands most efficiently.
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Oh come on, economic considerations always above anything else? |
Providing the consumer as best as possible is the primary consideration of business or charity (not sure if the place is for profit, I'm thinking it is not). You don't offer a rec center where people are less likely to use your facilities.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Trademark
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Joined: November 21 2006
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Posted: August 05 2010 at 12:41 |
Crap!! So much for my plans for that Nazi youth center on the Temple Mount
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Henry Plainview
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Posted: August 05 2010 at 13:08 |
Sean Trane wrote:
So if I were the Muslims, instead of burning embassies, I'd have shut my mouth and rather be thought a tolerant fool, than go on a rampage and prove these caricatures right. |
I very clearly did not say they were right to respond in the way they did. But the cartoon is stupid (as all political cartoons are) because it's fundamentally misrepresenting the issue in order to make a point without having to do any actual work and thinking. If you don't see how this is vastly different from the cartoon as portrayed in the cartoon, then I have no idea what to say.
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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Slartibartfast
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Posted: August 05 2010 at 14:04 |
Henry Plainview wrote:
I very clearly did not say they were right to respond in the way they did. But the cartoon is stupid (as all political cartoons are) |
No they're not, you need to visit my cartoon thread, not that I think it would change or mind on anything.
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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npjnpj
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Posted: August 06 2010 at 00:22 |
If a property developer demolishes a block of still inhabited flats and then has a supermarket put up by a group of affiliates in its place, would that be OK because the demand is there?
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Henry Plainview
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Posted: August 06 2010 at 00:28 |
npjnpj wrote:
If a property developer demolishes a block of still inhabited flats and then has a supermarket put up by a group of affiliates in its place, would that be OK because the demand is there? |
You cannot possibly be serious with this post.
Slartibartfast wrote:
Henry Plainview wrote:
I very clearly did not say they were right to respond in the way they did. But the cartoon is stupid (as all political cartoons are) | No they're not, you need to visit my cartoon thread, not that I think it would change or mind on anything. |
I knew you would be offended by that, I hope you don't burn me in effigy. ;-)
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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Mr ProgFreak
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Posted: August 06 2010 at 01:26 |
npjnpj wrote:
If a property developer demolishes a block of still inhabited flats and then has a supermarket put up by a group of affiliates in its place, would that be OK because the demand is there?
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Is there no difference between demand of food and demand of religious supremacy?
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npjnpj
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Posted: August 06 2010 at 02:21 |
Depends on how hungry you are.
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Sean Trane
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Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
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Points: 20412
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Posted: August 06 2010 at 02:57 |
Slartibartfast wrote:
Henry Plainview wrote:
I very clearly did not say they were right to respond in the way they did. But the cartoon is stupid (as all political cartoons are) |
No they're not, you need to visit my cartoon thread, not that I think it would change or mind on anything.
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I'm with Stari blastfast (  ) on this.  sorry, couldn't help it 
Most political caricatures are indeed often exagerating (to get the point across), but they provide some well-needed food for thoughts as it presents the problem from a different angle than the partizan factions are presenting the issues from their own private slant though the press.
if it wasn't for political caricatures actually wettting the powder keg, the extremist Flemish and Wallons would be a lot worse off and probably would be battling it out in the streets of Europe's capital.....
BTW.... it is precisely that caricature published here (the one you just posted) that created that big stink I spoke of.
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let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: August 06 2010 at 04:49 |
Sean Trane wrote:
Slartibartfast wrote:
Henry Plainview wrote:
I very clearly did not say they were right to respond in the way they did. But the cartoon is stupid (as all political cartoons are) |
No they're not, you need to visit my cartoon thread, not that I think it would change or mind on anything.
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I'm with Stari blastfast (  ) on this.  sorry, couldn't help it 
Most political caricatures are indeed often exagerating (to get the point across), but they provide some well-needed food for thoughts as it presents the problem from a different angle than the partizan factions are presenting the issues from their own private slant though the press.
if it wasn't for political caricatures actually wettting the powder keg, the extremist Flemish and Wallons would be a lot worse off and probably would be battling it out in the streets of Europe's capital.....
BTW.... it is precisely that caricature published here (the one you just posted) that created that big stink I spoke of.
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How the hell are the makers of political cartoons any less partisan or privately slanted than any other medium? You realize political cartoons are part of the press.
They don't give food for thought. They try to reduce real discussion into a 500x500 pixel image which provides unsubstantiated and shallow loose connections and bad humor instead of anything resembling a reasoned argument.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: August 06 2010 at 04:51 |
npjnpj wrote:
If a property developer demolishes a block of still inhabited flats and then has a supermarket put up by a group of affiliates in its place, would that be OK because the demand is there?
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Lol does this even need a response? Because I totally made an absolute statement right?
No you can't usurp a person's right to life or property, ever. Which is why these people should be free to build there actually.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Sean Trane
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Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
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Posted: August 06 2010 at 09:17 |
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
Sean Trane wrote:
Slartibartfast wrote:
Henry Plainview wrote:
I very clearly did not say they were right to respond in the way they did. But the cartoon is stupid (as all political cartoons are) |
No they're not, you need to visit my cartoon thread, not that I think it would change or mind on anything.
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I'm with Stari blastfast (  ) on this.  sorry, couldn't help it 
Most political caricatures are indeed often exagerating (to get the point across), but they provide some well-needed food for thoughts as it presents the problem from a different angle than the partizan factions are presenting the issues from their own private slant though the press.
if it wasn't for political caricatures actually wettting the powder keg, the extremist Flemish and Wallons would be a lot worse off and probably would be battling it out in the streets of Europe's capital.....
BTW.... it is precisely that caricature published here (the one you just posted) that created that big stink I spoke of.
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How the hell are the makers of political cartoons any less partisan or privately slanted than any other medium? You realize political cartoons are part of the press.
They don't give food for thought. They try to reduce real discussion into a 500x500 pixel image which provides unsubstantiated and shallow loose connections and bad humor instead of anything resembling a reasoned argument.
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Hey Pat,
That's probably because you don't known the good caricaturists. The ones I read are generally highly regarded by the public and in case of Belgium and France, they are often hired by the state=owned tv to illustrate the political debates of early sundays (between 12 and 1PM). It's part of the political life here in Europe, and every politician must deal with it.
Believe me, these caricaturist guys are hitting left right and center and are so good at it, that they don't even have ennemies. More than one politician even bought the original drawing about him to frame.... and I can tell you that surprisingly, it's not always the most gentle for him that they buy.
And I don't mean Doonsbury here, although there could be worsely partizan cartoons.
And sometimes they were downright hilarious (ever read the early Bloom County cartoons??? You might be a little young; because it was in the late 80's (mostly) and early 90's (the end) and sometimes just goofy and not political at all.
Not all newspaters are partizans in their political opinions.
The ones I read are generally fairly neutral. I make sure of it in the first few months of reading a newspaper (I started reading them fairly early.... I delivered them from age 10 until 18) , or else the info you read is too slanted.
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let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword
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The T
Special Collaborator
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Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: August 06 2010 at 11:07 |
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
Sean Trane wrote:
Slartibartfast wrote:
Henry Plainview wrote:
I very clearly did not say they were right to respond in the way they did. But the cartoon is stupid (as all political cartoons are) |
No they're not, you need to visit my cartoon thread, not that I think it would change or mind on anything. |
I'm with Stari blastfast (  ) on this.  sorry, couldn't help it 
Most political caricatures are indeed often exagerating (to get the point across), but they provide some well-needed food for thoughts as it presents the problem from a different angle than the partizan factions are presenting the issues from their own private slant though the press.
if it wasn't for political caricatures actually wettting the powder keg, the extremist Flemish and Wallons would be a lot worse off and probably would be battling it out in the streets of Europe's capital.....
BTW.... it is precisely that caricature published here (the one you just posted) that created that big stink I spoke of.
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How the hell are the makers of political cartoons any less partisan or privately slanted than any other medium? You realize political cartoons are part of the press. They don't give food for thought. They try to reduce real discussion into a 500x500 pixel image which provides unsubstantiated and shallow loose connections and bad humor instead of anything resembling a reasoned argument. |
As stupid as they may be, people have the liberty to create them right? And even muslims should respect that right? Even if it is offensive right? Because the possibility of people getting offended is meaningless against the exercise of liberty right?
So I guess, as a good libertarian, you should agree that political cartoons including the one from the muslim prophet have all the right to exist. Even if you may think that for personal considerations  such a cartoon should have never been drawn...
Edited by The T - August 06 2010 at 11:11
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stonebeard
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Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
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Posted: August 06 2010 at 11:48 |
The T wrote:
So I guess, as a good libertarian, you should agree that political cartoons including the one from the muslim prophet have all the right to exist. Even if you may think that for personal considerations such a cartoon should have never been drawn... |
I am confused. Are you suggesting that because touchy Muslims who get their panties in a twist because people in pluralist societies draw pictures, we actually shouldn't draw the pictures? It's all the more reason to draw them! These people don't get that people in our society can call their beliefs sh*t, point out how unreasonable they are, and laugh at them, and it's all completely legal? Get a thicker skin or get out of the society, but don't try to threaten us into Sharia, radical Muslims. You don't come into a society based on freedom of expression and try to get rid of the right to freedom of expression.
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Finnforest
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Joined: February 03 2007
Location: The Heartland
Status: Offline
Points: 17258
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Posted: August 06 2010 at 11:56 |
stonebeard wrote:
The T wrote:
So I guess, as a good libertarian, you should agree that political cartoons including the one from the muslim prophet have all the right to exist. Even if you may think that for personal considerations such a cartoon should have never been drawn... |
I am confused. Are you suggesting that because touchy Muslims who get their panties in a twist because people in pluralist societies draw pictures, we actually shouldn't draw the pictures? It's all the more reason to draw them! These people don't get that people in our society can call their beliefs sh*t, point out how unreasonable they are, and laugh at them, and it's all completely legal? Get a thicker skin or get out of the society, but don't try to threaten us into Sharia, radical Muslims.
You don't come into a society based on freedom of expression and try to get rid of the right to freedom of expression.
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Agreed Stoney. Tolerance is a two-way street. You have the right to practice your faith in our society (even though we don't in yours), but we don't give up our freedom of expression, and we don't have to allow Sharia's treatment of women in our midst, just because more Muslims are moving into Europe and US.
Edited by Finnforest - August 06 2010 at 12:06
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...that moment you realize you like "Mob Rules" better than "Heaven and Hell"
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