French approve ban on burqas...

I'm really asking that before people go on about "debasing women" (not directing this at you, David, just borrowing your words), that they read the article I posted on page one:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/08/world/middleeast/08women.html

These women have bigger issues on their mind than what they wear.  That's more than I can say for a quite a few women in the US.

Epignosis wrote: I'm really asking that before people go on about "debasing women" (not directing this at you, David, just borrowing your words), that they read the article I posted on page one: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/08/world/middleeast/08women.html These women have bigger issues on their mind than what they wear.  That's more than I can say for a quite a few women in the US.

Why all this fuss? I guess there are mo more than twenty women in toute France wearing a burqa.

Jim Garten wrote: Please remember people, site rules state all posts to be in English - many thanks.

 

someone_else wrote: Jim Garten wrote: Please remember people, site rules state all posts to be in English - many thanks.   There are far more non-English posts in other threads which are sometimes even harder to read. Here, for instance...

Thanks for the heads up - similar request posted there

For the record, France never wanted to be a "multicultural" country; everyone is welcome here, with the condition of accepting French social values (which are especially the "social contract", "laicity" and "rationalism"). If you read the article I posted just after the OP, you'll be offered a detailed comparison between "multiculturalism" and "integration", and the reasons why the latter appears to be a better solution.

France is not trying to limit the personal expression of identity of anyone, just to prohibit what offends French values - like a symbol of women oppression. Also if you read the article I posted, you'll see that immigrants are fine with French values and have chosen to integrate. This is a minor issue that makes waves in the press more than in the streets. BTW burqa has already been banned in other European countries, and nothing happened.

^ I have no idea, but I'll ask. That's a good question. Most of the education done in France is public, and from what I know private schools have recently gained ground only because of the constant degradation of  public school education.

RE how much are Muslims expected to integrate, I don't think there's anything written down except for this recent burqa prohibition, what I can say is that after living more than one year here (in and around Paris) I have yet to see any expression of religious identity (certain extravagant clothes, symbols, prayer at the fixed hours). But I have much to learn about French society.

Blacksword wrote: harmonium.ro wrote: For the record, France never wanted to be a "multicultural" country; everyone is welcome here, with the condition of accepting French social values (which are especially the "social contract", "laicity" and "rationalism"). If you read the article I posted just after the OP, you'll be offered a detailed comparison between "multiculturalism" and "integration", and the reasons why the latter appears to be a better solution. France is not trying to limit the personal expression of identity of anyone, just to prohibit what offends French values - like a symbol of women oppression. Also if you read the article I posted, you'll see that immigrants are fine with French values and have chosen to integrate. This is a minor issue that makes waves in the press more than in the streets. BTW burqa has already been banned in other European countries, and nothing happened. Very true, but multiculturism and integration need not be mutually exclusive. By how much are Muslims expected to 'integrate' into French culture? Out of interest, are there faith schools in France? I support a completely secular education system, but in the UK faith schools can still be, at least in part, state funded. Is that the same in France?

I haven't read down the thread but here's my view.

First off how do we know it's a woman under there. Maybe some criminal will get an idea to use it as a disguise to rob the corner store or an armoured car.

When we go over to their countries we have to respect their customs and traditions and a good example is the cosumption of alcohol. If they want to come over to France, Canada, The United States etc. to live or visit they have to respect ours. It's cut and dry as far as I'm concerned. Some of these people come over to western countries for a  better life and we're prepared to giv it to them. What I don't understand is why they want to push their sh*t on us.

One thing that has a lot of people still pissed here in Canada  is that the East Indians who join the Royal Canadian Mounted Police are permitted to wear turbans. Th RCMP is full of tradition and the uniform reflects that. I had a friend who was pulled over for speeding by an officer wearing a turban and he refused to co-operate until an officer was sent wearing the proper uniform. So they actually sent another cruiser with an officer with the proper uniform and he got his speeding ticket. There is also provisions in the Canadian Forces for them to wear tubans as part of the uniform.

Well there's my take on all this.

Mr ProgFreak wrote: What he said.

HA HA HA. Walking around looking like Darth Vader

Who is this guy?