Never Mind the Bollocks.....

@ Crist

Punk pissed off many proggers because they were too wrapped up in escapism and failed to address social issues. The whole point of punk was to NOT connect with escapists drawn to prog.

That means those who hated were definitely stuck in the mud and could not adapt to the changing musical world around them. The same went for punkers stuck in the mud who hated more artistic statements.

This pattern repeats every decade or so however in the modern world it seems more music lovers are more mature in accepting all forms of musical expressions as valid and thankfully so!

Cristi wrote: I can respect, in retrospect, the rebellious nature of punk, ....

^ Nicely said.   We forget how loud, dirty and punky the Fabs were when they were clubbing.   Unrecognizable from the sophisticated, tragically hip modern rockers they became.

Cristi wrote: siLLy puPPy wrote: Honestly one of the best punk albums ever made and one of my personal favorites While not as far out as some of the post punk and art punk acts to come The Sex Pistols scored the perfect musical slap in the face in 1977 The hatred of punk by many proggers only showcases how stuck in the mud many of them really were \ are! That last sentence is unfair. Maybe some dislike punk because the music just does not speak to them in any way.  The only good thing punk did was inspire other musicians to create new music, gave metal a boost, post punk is much more interesting.  An album (and a genre obviously) that appeared at the right place and the right time, filled a void. Grunge & alternative did the same in the 90s.

David_D wrote: Cristi wrote: I can respect, in retrospect, the rebellious nature of punk, .... That's good because I certainly won't say that the rebellious nature of Metal as a whole is of a better kind than the one of Punk.

Cristi wrote: David_D wrote: Cristi wrote: I can respect, in retrospect, the rebellious nature of punk, .... That's good because I certainly won't say that the rebellious nature of Metal as a whole is of a better kind than the one of Punk. Depends on the band, on the subgenre. Plenty of metal is rebellious in a good way, many bands have great lyrics, from life's struggle to societal and political issues. So you are generalizing here.

Edited by David_D - December 11 2023 at 07:41

Psychedelic Paul wrote: Cristi wrote: It's ... b*******...  I couldn't agree more. I've always hated Punk Rock and everything it stood for with vile angry youths banging bits of furniture together to make a horrendous racket. After all, it was punk that tried to destroy prog, but Punk Rock ending up in the dustbin of music history after barely three years, whereas Prog Rock is still going strong nearly half a century later. Vive La Prog, as we say in England.

Psychedelic Paul wrote: Cristi wrote: It's ... b*******...  I couldn't agree more. I've always hated Punk Rock and everything it stood for with vile angry youths banging bits of furniture together to make a horrendous racket. After all, it was punk that tried to destroy prog, but Punk Rock ending up in the dustbin of music history after barely three years, whereas Prog Rock is still going strong nearly half a century later. Vive La Prog, as we say in England.

siLLy puPPy wrote: Why are you agreeing when it's completely wrong? First of all punk didn't kill prog. Punk started well before the Sex Pistols, it just wasn't called punk yet. MC5, New York Dolls and The Stooges were the quintessential early punk bands that captured the imagination of those who wanted a more rebellious style in their rock. Punk did not die after three years, au contraire it simply splintered off into myriad sub-genres ranging from post-punk and new wave to art punk, Gothic rock and yes even progressive punk! Both punk and prog are still going strong so why is it considered a competition nearly 50 years on? Sure the initial reaction was to emphasize on simpler songs that highlighted social issues but prog's decline was a result of burnout and the increased interest in disco, electronica and good old fashioned pop music. Prog really didn't die out at all. Some of the best prog came out around 1977 and after and likewise some of the best best punk came out in the 1980s. People who make these general claims don't seem to have a grasp on the deeper history that played out. Keep in mind that popularity in music has a lot to do with record companies manipulating the public's perceptions and not the true zeitgeist of any given era.

I think the Punk v Prog partly came from the Pistols appearing on TV and one of them (Rotten?) was wearing a 'I Hate Pink Floyd' T-shirt. That was about as clear as it gets. Prog did garner a lot of support from the so called 'Intelligentsia' which was mainly music critics/music papers most of whom turned on prog bands after punk came along. Roger Waters addressed this attitude to some extent on The Wall and may even have mimicked punk with the infamous spitting incident on the Animals tour that eventually lead to The Wall. Greg Lake said that up until punk he was being called a 'progressive revolutionary genius' but afterwords mainly just 'crap'. The battle for hearts of minds of teenagers back in the late seventies was won by punks very quickly but the big prog hitters such as Yes and ELP had little new to say while the movement in general had gone for a more fusion based direction that had little crossover to radio and therefore was not very visible. Prog resurfaced in the 80's under the moniker Neo prog and clearly the likes of Marillion and IQ were able to take some of that punk attitude and put it into their music, one of the big reasons I like The Wake so much. 

Edited by richardh - December 11 2023 at 22:38