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SouthSideoftheSky View Drop Down
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What I like about ELP is their music.

People who focus on things other than the band's music such as their stage antics and props, probably don't have a very good appreciation of the music.
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Originally posted by SouthSideoftheSky SouthSideoftheSky wrote:


What I like about ELP is their music.

People who focus on things other than the band's music such as their stage antics and props, probably don't have a very good appreciation of the music.


Hi,

I always thought, and might be incorrect here, that the knife on the keyboard (for example) was actually to sustain the key going longer than the instrument was designed for at the time. As such, this would take it away from the obvious camera shot that made it look like a fun thing to do and show audiences a side that would not exactly be considered musical, but fun.
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Originally posted by SouthSideoftheSky SouthSideoftheSky wrote:


What I like about ELP is their music.

People who focus on things other than the band's music such as their stage antics and props, probably don't have a very good appreciation of the music.

And those who are misforunate enough to never see them live would probably have no appreciation of their excellent live performances.

Edited by SteveG - August 20 2021 at 09:52
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Does any know of another band that rearranged (and I don't mean the order) their own songs more than ELP for their live shows. It seems every time I saw them (5 or 6 times) they would perform new versions of old songs that seem to keep them fresh, it was also because Emerson loved to improvise.


Edited by JD - August 20 2021 at 10:20
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Originally posted by JD JD wrote:

Does any know of another band that rearranged (and I don't mean the order) their own songs more than ELP for their live shows. It seems every time I saw them (5 or 6 times) they would perform new versions of old songs that seem to keep them fresh, it was also because Emerson loved to improvise.
Hmm, that's a tough one. Does 2 hour improvs by the Grateful Dead count? LOL
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Originally posted by JD JD wrote:

Does any know of another band that rearranged (and I don't mean the order) their own songs more than ELP for their live shows. It seems every time I saw them (5 or 6 times) they would perform new versions of old songs that seem to keep them fresh, it was also because Emerson loved to improvise.

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Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by SouthSideoftheSky SouthSideoftheSky wrote:


What I like about ELP is their music.

People who focus on things other than the band's music such as their stage antics and props, probably don't have a very good appreciation of the music.



Hi,

I always thought, and might be incorrect here, that the knife on the keyboard (for example) was actually to sustain the key going longer than the instrument was designed for at the time. As such, this would take it away from the obvious camera shot that made it look like a fun thing to do and show audiences a side that would not exactly be considered musical, but fun.
Yes, the knife was used to make notes sustain. Lemmy taught this to Keith back when Lemmy was a roadie.
As regards the op, ELP at their best is progressive rock at its best. I listen to all kinds of music, but if you want top notch progressive rock, that would be ELP and King Crimson. Besides, those two bands invented what many others copied.
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Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

Originally posted by JD JD wrote:

Does any know of another band that rearranged (and I don't mean the order) their own songs more than ELP for their live shows. It seems every time I saw them (5 or 6 times) they would perform new versions of old songs that seem to keep them fresh, it was also because Emerson loved to improvise.



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Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

Yes, the knife was used to make notes sustain. Lemmy taught this to Keith back when Lemmy was a roadie.

Lemmy...as in that Lemmy? Never heard that before. I once read that Keith borrowed the stunt from a cat in the early '60s, an organist he saw perform and/or knew. I forget the name, but I bet Steve knows.
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Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

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They had amazing talent for a three-piece band!  Greg Lake was one of the great, unsung-masters of prog bass guitar....He used a similar approach to Rickenbacker-masters Chris Squire, John Camp, Ray Bennett and Gary Strater (amongst others), using plectrum + round-wound strings to achieve a sound similar to the low end of a piano.  His lead guitar and acoustic work were also sublime, and I considered him one of the better vocalists of the genre.  (he disliked Rickenbacker 4001, once saying that their necks swayed several inches (??), when I saw them with BSS tour, he played the amazing Gibson Ripper bass). 

Were they corny?  Hell yeah, that is what we demanded back in the day!  Welcome back my friends, to the show that never ends....it was like a cross between serious music and professional wrestling!  

I need to revisit their catalog, it's been quite a while.  RIP Greg and Keith.


Edited by cstack3 - August 20 2021 at 15:01
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Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

Yes, the knife was used to make notes sustain. Lemmy taught this to Keith back when Lemmy was a roadie.

Lemmy...as in that Lemmy? Never heard that before. I once read that Keith borrowed the stunt from a cat in the early '60s, an organist he saw perform and/or knew. I forget the name, but I bet Steve knows.
From what I read, Keith was trying different things to get the keys to stay on and Lemmy (Motorhead) who was a roadie at the time said try this and handed Keith his knife.
Once he started using the knife, Keith milked it for theatrical purposes.
If I remember correctly, this is from Lemmy's recollections in an interview.

Edited by Easy Money - August 20 2021 at 15:34
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Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

Yes, the knife was used to make notes sustain. Lemmy taught this to Keith back when Lemmy was a roadie.

Lemmy...as in that Lemmy? Never heard that before. I once read that Keith borrowed the stunt from a cat in the early '60s, an organist he saw perform and/or knew. I forget the name, but I bet Steve knows.


That 'cat' was organist Don Shinn who Emerson saw at the Marquee club manipulating the sound of the Hammond from inside the instrument with a screwdriver. Bet he used up a few of his nine lives doing that. The knife routine was mostly a visual gimmick but did serve a practical purpose. Keith was heavily influenced by Jazz/Blues organist Jimmy Smith who liked to set up a drone in his playing by leaving a key pressed down which continued to sound while he improvised over the top with his other hand. Using Lemmy's  Hitler Youth daggers, Emerson was able to create the drone but have both his hands free with which to improvise.


Edited by ExittheLemming - August 20 2021 at 18:20
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Originally posted by JD JD wrote:

Does any know of another band that rearranged (and I don't mean the order) their own songs more than ELP for their live shows. It seems every time I saw them (5 or 6 times) they would perform new versions of old songs that seem to keep them fresh, it was also because Emerson loved to improvise.



I'm not really sure, since I haven't heard so many different shows, but I would expect King Crimson and Pink Floyd to have gone a similar path on that respect.
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Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

Yes, the knife was used to make notes sustain. Lemmy taught this to Keith back when Lemmy was a roadie.

Lemmy...as in that Lemmy? Never heard that before. I once read that Keith borrowed the stunt from a cat in the early '60s, an organist he saw perform and/or knew. I forget the name, but I bet Steve knows.


That 'cat' was organist Don Shinn who Emerson saw at the Marquee club manipulating the sound of the Hammond from inside the instrument with a screwdriver. Bet he used up a few of his nine lives doing that. The knife routine was mostly a visual gimmick but did serve a practical purpose. Keith was heavily influenced by Jazz/Blues organist Jimmy Smith who liked to set up a drone in his playing by leaving a key pressed down which continued to sound while he improvised over the top with his other hand. Using Lemmy's  Hitler Youth daggers, Emerson was able to create the drone but have both his hands free with which to improvise.

Big time. But one of the funniest things Keith ever related (in an interview with Keyboard) was how he caught one of Jimmy Smith's gigs in a smoky downtown club right after a typical big venue-ELP concert the same night. Keith knew Smith was on and caught a cab immediately after their show. Jimmy noticed him and made a remark. After the second or third piece Keith heard, Smith looked over at him again and said "You white folk really like this stuff, don't you?" 

Keith's next action: "Waiter! Check, please!" LOL
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ELP were far from perfect and it seems to me from afar that they loved live performing much more than they did making studio albums. However they still reeled off several masterpieces if you ignore the artificial restraints of albums.
In Chrono order:
Take A Pebble
Tarkus
Trilogy
Karn Evil 9 3rd Impression
Pirates

after that it dried up.

there was also a lot of enjoyable tracks if lacking the necessary prog gravitas at times. But they didn't care about 'prog' just about innovation and maybe advancing music a tiny bit while having fun. Other bands by comparison were massively anal.

consistent band? NO! Entertaining? YES!!
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Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by SouthSideoftheSky SouthSideoftheSky wrote:


What I like about ELP is their music.

People who focus on things other than the band's music such as their stage antics and props, probably don't have a very good appreciation of the music.

And those who are misfortunate enough to never see them live would probably have no appreciation of their excellent live performances.

Hi,

I think the days of the grand shows are over. So many of the shows these days are about a lot of what I would consider just technical this and that, and the music behind it is no where near the ability of the light show ... or as I saw in a Festival years ago, the folks doing the lighting and the sound, are not (usually) part of the band, in the case I saw they did not even know the music, and the camera folks were even worse, completely walking away from "star" moments, or "solo" moments ... the worst use/example of cameras I have ever seen, and the lights? ... I had a thread about lightshows in here somewhere, and I can tell you that I have not seen a light show that BELONGS WITH THE MUSIC since THE WALL.

These days, a lot of music is "plasticine" (as Paul or John would say), and without a strong meaning, and a proper design, a lot of these shows are just a massive waste of electricity.

That's not to say, however, the in the old days, some bands did not waste electricity. Deep Purple comes to mind right away.
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Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by SouthSideoftheSky SouthSideoftheSky wrote:


What I like about ELP is their music.

People who focus on things other than the band's music such as their stage antics and props, probably don't have a very good appreciation of the music.

And those who are misfortunate enough to never see them live would probably have no appreciation of their excellent live performances.

Hi,

I think the days of the grand shows are over. So many of the shows these days are about a lot of what I would consider just technical this and that, and the music behind it is no where near the ability of the light show ... or as I saw in a Festival years ago, the folks doing the lighting and the sound, are not (usually) part of the band, in the case I saw they did not even know the music, and the camera folks were even worse, completely walking away from "star" moments, or "solo" moments ... the worst use/example of cameras I have ever seen, and the lights? ... I had a thread about lightshows in here somewhere, and I can tell you that I have not seen a light show that BELONGS WITH THE MUSIC since THE WALL.

These days, a lot of music is "plasticine" (as Paul or John would say), and without a strong meaning, and a proper design, a lot of these shows are just a massive waste of electricity.

That's not to say, however, the in the old days, some bands did not waste electricity. Deep Purple comes to mind right away.
You can add Trans-Siberian Orchestra to that, although the music is fair enough, but the staging is right at the levels of excess that many classic prog bands had in the 70's.
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Originally posted by JD JD wrote:

You can add Trans-Siberian Orchestra to that, although the music is fair enough, but the staging is right at the levels of excess that many classic prog bands had in the 70's.

Good point about TSO, although the fireball effects channel Kiss more than ELP!  
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Saw them in London ON years ago. I was sitting in the nose bleeds. When those burners went off I swear the temperature in our section rose by 5º C.

I wish I could attach a video from my phone I have.

Next best thing...screen grab.





Edited by JD - August 21 2021 at 14:08
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