And my main musical love is "Classical music", mainly The Symphony, and I listen to over 40 composers from Bach to Schoenberg, and I think it is great when a band like ELP transcribe, and thus, interest, people in classical music.

             My favorite band is Triumvirat, and they could not have been what they were without the existence of ELP. (but are not "clones",  good heavens!)

            Classic ELP are a  class act. I don't see them as "excessive", more like "cerebral" as purely symphonic music is, as well. Complexity is important to me in music, whether rock or otherwise, and I don't really see that as pretentious, just the way I am when appreciating music.

Tethro Juul wrote: The common charges I see is that they're "bombastic", "pompous", and "excessive".

Well that's what prog usually is. So I would assume the criticism mostly comes from people who don't like prog.

I like ELP. Not a big fan, but I like them.

Hi,

I don't know ... I'm not a fan of the "filler" stuff either, but I knew a lot of folks around me that were into the same music and they liked most of it, but also thought that it was way too intense, and not as much fun as a doped up song would be. In that sense, specially in concert, that would likely become a fan favorite to hear and enjoy, rather than some long musical passages, that some folks here don't want to listen to ... even when it is done on solo piano by Rachel Flowers, showing what a magnificent piano composition it was in the first place. 

And for all the heckling we do, c'mon ... not many piano (and eventually keyboard) players really got a lot of response in school or appreciation for what they thought they wanted to do that they wanted to do! So what is your option? Go crazy and add a little fun to it! Hack, people thought that Switched on Bach was just stoned immaculate when it first came out ... never mind that like Tomita, it also had a very fair and competent musical presentation in a new context.

I wish we had a better understanding of the time and place and how radio controlled music in those days, that went back to the mid 50's and the famed Pirate Radio ships doing something in England, that in the end, forced the BBC to open their doors to, so more folks could listen to new music!

Today, something like this is meaningless, and we don't get it why a fun song would be important. In many ways I always thought they were just a finger to the big guy in the sky smoking a cigar stealing all the money --- and not allowing bands to be themselves, which kinda went to Mars and Venus for 10 years in the 70's.

 

I actually prefer side 2 of Tarkus to side 1 of Brain Salad Surgery, and it is side 2 of Tarkus (except for "Are You Ready Eddy?") that makes me prefer Tarkus to Brain Salad Surgery.

 

Oh sorry, I meant that Keith use a lot of synth in ELP In general. Regardless to his side in Works. Sorry for the confusion. 

People always trot that one out when criticising ELP. even though it was to stop him being electrocuted. 

Maybe it had a rubber base? Anyway, if I could afford a $6000 rug I'd probably stand on it at my gigs (if I ever had a stage big enough).

This may not be a handstand but I didn't know what else to call it~!

Whatever works. As much the Emerson/Palmer fanboy that I am, the band needed Lake to get big. "Lucky Man," "From the Beginning," "Still...You Turn Me On," "Jerusalem," "C'est La Vie"...can't imagine the band without his songs.

I was actually watching a film about ELP at the Isle of Wight festival recently when he was talking about his organ antics (!). His roadies got fed up with repairing his Hammond after every gig so they strengthened it with iron. At the next gig Emerson ended up with the Hammond on top of him and couldn't lift it off. It took two roadies to lift it off him. Maybe that put him off a bit?

What I like about ELP is their music.

People who focus on things other than the band's music such as their stage antics and props, probably don't have a very good appreciation of the music.

Hi,

I always thought, and might be incorrect here, that the knife on the keyboard (for example) was actually to sustain the key going longer than the instrument was designed for at the time. As such, this would take it away from the obvious camera shot that made it look like a fun thing to do and show audiences a side that would not exactly be considered musical, but fun.

Tangerine Dream, circa the '70s & '80s.

Lemmy...as in that Lemmy? Never heard that before. I once read that Keith borrowed the stunt from a cat in the early '60s, an organist he saw perform and/or knew. I forget the name, but I bet Steve knows.

Were they corny?  Hell yeah, that is what we demanded back in the day!  Welcome back my friends, to the show that never ends....it was like a cross between serious music and professional wrestling!  

I need to revisit their catalog, it's been quite a while.  RIP Greg and Keith.

That 'cat' was organist Don Shinn who Emerson saw at the Marquee club manipulating the sound of the Hammond from inside the instrument with a screwdriver. Bet he used up a few of his nine lives doing that. The knife routine was mostly a visual gimmick but did serve a practical purpose. Keith was heavily influenced by Jazz/Blues organist Jimmy Smith who liked to set up a drone in his playing by leaving a key pressed down which continued to sound while he improvised over the top with his other hand. Using Lemmy's  Hitler Youth daggers, Emerson was able to create the drone but have both his hands free with which to improvise.

Big time. But one of the funniest things Keith ever related (in an interview with Keyboard) was how he caught one of Jimmy Smith's gigs in a smoky downtown club right after a typical big venue-ELP concert the same night. Keith knew Smith was on and caught a cab immediately after their show. Jimmy noticed him and made a remark. After the second or third piece Keith heard, Smith looked over at him again and said "You white folk really like this stuff, don't you?" 

Keith's next action: "Waiter! Check, please!" 

In Chrono order:

Take A Pebble

Tarkus

Trilogy

Karn Evil 9 3rd Impression

Pirates

after that it dried up.

there was also a lot of enjoyable tracks if lacking the necessary prog gravitas at times. But they didn't care about 'prog' just about innovation and maybe advancing music a tiny bit while having fun. Other bands by comparison were massively anal.

consistent band? NO! Entertaining? YES!!

Hi,

I think the days of the grand shows are over. So many of the shows these days are about a lot of what I would consider just technical this and that, and the music behind it is no where near the ability of the light show ... or as I saw in a Festival years ago, the folks doing the lighting and the sound, are not (usually) part of the band, in the case I saw they did not even know the music, and the camera folks were even worse, completely walking away from "star" moments, or "solo" moments ... the worst use/example of cameras I have ever seen, and the lights? ... I had a thread about lightshows in here somewhere, and I can tell you that I have not seen a light show that BELONGS WITH THE MUSIC since THE WALL.

These days, a lot of music is "plasticine" (as Paul or John would say), and without a strong meaning, and a proper design, a lot of these shows are just a massive waste of electricity.

That's not to say, however, the in the old days, some bands did not waste electricity. Deep Purple comes to mind right away.

Good point about TSO, although the fireball effects channel Kiss more than ELP!  

Saw them in London ON years ago. I was sitting in the nose bleeds. When those burners went off I swear the temperature in our section rose by 5º C.

I wish I could attach a video from my phone I have.

Next best thing...screen grab.

that's exactly why the live triple is so important. The version of Tarkus on their is much better than its studio form because you can really hear the hammond properly and Emerson's total mastery of it. Studio version is still good but perhaps too many production tricks take something away imo. You should also check out the Mar Y Sol festival performance. Sheer heaven for hammond/ELP fans

Not to mention that live version of Aquatarkus.

Hi,

I think that TD has a much better excuse than most others. According to the Edgar Froese book, they had some serious issues with the hardware that caused many problems up to and including that no one knew how to get the same sound out of it a 2nd time, until the later 70's. 

It is the reason why their old bootlegs were so valuable. They were all different and you knew that monsters of the synths could not get tuned to match the music they had put on the albums.

For me, it made the band more exciting!

Correct (I also have the book). In the early days, modular synthesizers would detune rapidly and were subject to damage via poor handling and moisture and other factors. Inserting a patch cord in the same place was no guarantee the same timbre would be reproduced exactly as on album or the previous night, so they went with it.

Even after Johannes Schmoelling joined, they performed pieces — improv based on starting motifs — that they never committed to album (some were, but they were drastically altered). The Palast der Republik concert is one of my favorites (made officially available just a couple years ago). The 1981 Brussels show is another. At least they had the foresight to release Poland for us!

Edgar Froese took piano lessons beginning at 12, and picked up the guitar at 15.

Johannes Schmoelling and Paul Haslinger were both conservatory-trained. Paul let it all hang out on the Optical Race tour when he sat at the digital piano at the front of the stage and played a Bach Invention and some improv...and then the tease: the first notes of "Ricochet Pt. 2," which generated at least a couple shouts of approval. 

their last album? 

Who's.......er,   what balls would that be?

The only one I ever need to play is the debut....not that I don't like the next 4 releases.

I'm not sure I would agree with that last part. The most consistent and solid album from a song writing perspective is Black Moon (imo). There isn't a weak moment on that album but there were issues with Mark Mancina's production and maybe Carl not being quite the force of nature he once was that held it back. Emerson and Lake though are both great and probably their best collaborative effort.