Roger Waters & middle East politics

And then Anne Applebaum -Iron Curtain - find that and read it too. 

And there are many who are not critical of any Palestinian government that is in not any shape way or form democratic by nature and have only one answer: rockets. It has all to do with Waters, being  filthy rich poo disturber. We are talking about his poo. 

js (Easy Money) wrote: This has nothing to do with Roger Waters, who is someone I would not listen to about anything, but being critical of Israel's government does not make one anti-Jew, or particularly sympathetic towards the leaders in Palestine.. There are many Jews who are critical of the current government in Israel and how they handle things.

The thread is,about Roger Waters, and, of course, being critical of Israel's government does not make one anti-Jew, and, yes, there are many citizens of the country who are critical of their government's stance. Rightly, I might add, in many instances.

However, I do genuinely believe that Waters' views, alongside many on the so-called left in British politics particularly, cross the line in their uncritical nature of Palestinian politicians and terrorists, and slamming of Israel. I suppose it is a question of balance, and that balance strikes me as being sadly lacking (I am not referring'to you here, just to clarify as best I can).

javajeff wrote: Why can't he just sip his tea and participate in his own residence politics?  The Fletcher Memorial Home for incurable tyrants....and kings? Shouldn't he be getting a new shuffleboard court? What one of them?

^ I wouldn't call Waters "influential" in any substantial way.

^ Maybe (and that's a big maybe), but he's still just little old Roger Waters.  He's a has-been rock musician: no one cares what he thinks about anything.  I don't think they ever did.  It's not like he was Lennon or Dylan.

tszirmay wrote: The Rise and Fall of Communism by Archie Brown -find it and read it

tszirmay wrote: And then Anne Applebaum -Iron Curtain - find that and read it too.

I am not personally particularly interested in the USSR, as I don't uphold it or look to it as an example of anything other than capitalist development after a working class revolution (well, somewhat since the peasantry also played an important role). May '68 is more interesting to me, if you want a historic movement to refer to.

Well I will PM you with some info as this is out of the thread's context. 

Waters used the apartheid word may times, so he is current on this thread! 

A Person wrote: tszirmay wrote: What bothers me most is that influential and wealthy people like Waters (and Juncker, Cohn-Bendit , Brusselistan and the leftist internationalists who still fantasize of a social paradise where everyone is equal in name only but led by true visionaries  ) still has a captive audience. He is a rocker, a once brilliant progger who understood the GDR and its VOPO/STASI universe and yet acts like an imbecile who has no historical knowledge of anything outside oh his Wall. I have seen rock concerts and various other cultural shows in Israel. Absolute illegal and anathema in the Arab world except in Dubai (I wonder why!?). Fascinated by history, I traveled to Jerusalem as one who had studied two sides of Christianity, then spent a married spell in Judaism and recently divorced, more Buddhist in philosophy. Err… I got it, rights and laws, wars and tragedies, the human condition yadayada. Humans leading humans. Let me laugh….Any historian, pro or amateur like me, will tell you that the past mostly reveals the worst facet of the human condition, with occasional periods of beauty. Mostly borne out of hope. Hope that one day, we all get along. But as long as crooked and primitive leaders run governments, there will be no democracy in the Arab world.  Here! Name me ONE Arab or even Muslim country that is democratic, aka ‘Fair Elections’?!  Please? Just one. Hamas, Hezbollah, Isis, Al Qaida, Pakistan,Turkey (), Saudi Arabia (bigger ). Righto, NONE!    Today’s screwed up universe is a thousand times more vulnerable, because history today is TODAY. Only offer your hand of friendship to one who reciprocates, hand extended.  I feel sorry for the Israelis but sorrier for my Arab friends who are still screwed royally over by their OWN people and governments.  The Arab SPRUNG!  So, just so I understand you, you are saying it is totally ok to take land from Palestinian citizens, defend it with force, and create apartheid-like conditions because "Arab countries don't have democracy"?

The whole "taking their land" argument which is debatable (I mean no one can really claim ownership on a piece of land, it's not like there are actual boundaries there, 60 or 70 years ago there were Jewish and Arab settlements living one next to the other) is a "new" excuse. Prior to 67 there was no claim for land by the Palestinians, so were there no attacks on Israeli settlements? You bet there were, and on a regular basis too. Those attacks happened on what basis? The basis was my father told me to hate you and kill you, simple as that!
A day after the Declaration of Independence Arabs from within and outside launched an immediate attack on Israel known as the war of independence, why did they do that? Did we take any of their land? understand that the basis of the Arab fate/upbringing is to hate the Jews, I may sound like a right wing extremist but this is coming from a guy who's against pretty much everything Netanyahu is doing, but at least I know what's going on here.
There were many Israeli leaders who honestly tried to make peace, the problem is that the Arab world does not want it, they prefer to sacrifice the whole Palestinian people to be prisoners in Gaza while they live their normal life. Give them hell and keep the fight! I'll send you as much money as you like (but for missiles not medicine or food God forbid)

My opinion on building in the settlements is that it should cease just to show that we can make the first step (something that already happened many times before but nothing came out of it). Hell you can make peace tomorrow if you really wanted it, the Arab leadership can settle for starters and then work their way up, show your people what can be achieved by agreements, this nation can thrive if their leaders only wanted it. But to justify it by terror acts?

I really love Rabin's saying, Make peace like there is no terror and fight terror like there is no peace.