Is ELP against christianity

 

The Mayhem - "Necrolust" lyrics reproduced on the first page of this thread by the boy who calls himself "King of Loss" are absolutely disgusting, and as women, decent people and especially minors use this site, I think they should be removed ASAP. They are clearly against the forum rules. Can we write graphic pornographic stories, depicting the worst kind of perversions, here now? What is this forum for? Why are those highly offensive words still there? Why are unprincipled youngsters allowed to get away with this type of behavior?

SHAME!

Take it to another forum! 

Is this is what "success" and reaching out to the "next generation of prog fans" has brought?

Very sad.

Edited by Peter

Give them their own forum to defecate and pointlessly accumulate posts in.

Are those lyrics against the rules, or not?

If not....

Edited by Peter

Arteum wrote: Dear friends, those who support my opinions at least, I am leaving this site. I intended to do it since the inclusion of Radiohead (which I oppose), but I feel it especially below my dignity to read the reviews and opinions of people 90% of whom are religious lunatics. Oh, internet! Thank you for choosing my society for me! I no longer trust the moderators. One of them showed himself not only a loony but a professional charlatan. The other moderators included Queen, and other bands whose progressiveness I very much doubt. The site is undergoing a rapid expansion with being inclusive rather than exclusive, but I feel this practice is very harmful. It will end up being no better than amazon.com. Haven't the moderators thought of selling some merchandise yet? The forum is childish, rude and often obscene. I was genuinely shocked when I first discovered it (I had thought that the prog listeners were mostly rational intellectuals). The messages the people write and the language they use do not leave the room for a self-respected person to be here any more. I will probably drop in on progarchives now and then to check some factual information on some bands, but I am pulling out of writing reviews and discussing anything with vulgar people on the forum. There are many intellectual prog sites on the web, albeit not so complete and not so well organised. But I hope it is easier to breathe there. http://www.mwillett.org/

Ok so I've only read up to here in the thread, so more things may have gone on.

But the fact is that you were insulting people, ridiculing them, postrating yoruself as far more intelligent than them. You went LOOKING for trouble. You went looking for trouble, and you found trouble. Well, what the hell did you expect?

As an atheist, I found your "logical" arguments to be as childish and rude as you claim these messageboards to be, and they were completely unfounded in any of the logic that you so smuggly and arrogantly patted yourself on the back for posessing. In attempting to form an intelligent argument, when you realise that you are unable to do so you merely fall back on antagonism and attempts at ridiculization. Consider the following: if we were having a debate and I began saying "you're an absolute hopeless idiot who knows jack sh*t about anything, and I am far smarter than you. You're a dumbass, a moron, and every point you've expressed so far has been by default wrong due to your mental inability to express it. Don't even try it, kiddo, because I am so much better than you that you cannot even hope to win a debate against me." What would you say? Would you reply with, "hmmm... you may have a point there," or would you go on the offensive? When you put yourself forward as high-minded and arrogant with a stench of superiority and condescencion, again, I'll ask the same question I asked before, what the hell did you expect?

90% religious religious lunatics? In fact, the only two people in this topic who I would describe as lunatics (as far as the first 10 pages go, as I haven't read the rest), are Fragile and you. If you have such a solid grounding in logic, then look into all the theories of cause and effect you've ever postulated, and riddle me this: if the cause is being insulted, denigrated, ridiculed, and attempting in vain to argue with someone who is about as responsive to civilized debate as a wall, what is the effect? Knowing, as in your never-ending wisdom you know, that the effect of this cause would be nothing other than negative, I again must ask you the same question: what the hell did you expect?

When every post people like Maani, who put forth rational arguments (even if you deem their beliefs to be irrational, you must surely see the rationality in the arguments that they made) fell on completely deaf ears and blind eyes and was by default swept aside because you deemed yourself above such nonsense, when every single point you've made in the entire thread was a presumption based on a generalization based on a false assumption based on a lack of knowledge of the topic you were trying to debate, I must again ask you: what the hell did you expect?

Your arrogance is irritating even to people like me who agree with you. This board is, from my experience, made up of far more mature people than other boards, and you are in fact one of the most immature people I've seen here. It is with no regret that I see you go. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

NecroManiac wrote: I wear a cross sometimes and I'm an atheist. The cross as a symbol is much older than the touture tool, or chirsitianity for that matter.

What Cross do you use?

• Ankh Cross: Also known as Ra Cross, also religious
• Althaic Cross: Religious symbol
• Turkish Cross: Also an Armnenian Religuious symbol
• Croptic Cross: A didfferent version of the Christian Cross
• Greek Cross: Symbol of perfection and divinity
• High Cross: Symbol of the Church of Egland

Any cross you can mention or use has a religious background, even the heraldic ones (the union of nobility with the Church), so better check what you use because it can be against your Atheist beliefs.

Iván

Well, the disgusting lyrics are still there on page one, and have been there for some six months. No doubt, the album they appeared on would be sold with a warning label, but there is no such label on this thread or forum. I ask all the adults here (especially those with children), and the moderators, if those lyrics, graphically describing a necropiliac performing oral sex on the rotting corpses of nuns, remain here through an oversight, or deliberately.

If it was an oversight, now that I have brought them to the moderators' attention, I expect they will be removed today, at the latest, and the person who posted them warned against such offences in the strongest possible way.

If they are allowed to remain (perhaps in the interest of "free speech" or to spark "productive discussion"), then perhaps I will start a thread dedicated to the posting of the most disgusting, pornographic and perverted stories, lyrics ........etc, we can find, or come up with.

Do Max and Ron want stuff like that on their site? Is that what you expect to encounter when you log on here, at school, at work, or while your children or wife are in the room? What ugly, revolting imagery to have in my head, alll because I logged onto my fomerly favourite progressive rock forum!

Why am I the only one speaking up? Am I a just prude to object to graphic descriptions of ......?

Where is the decency and adult leadership here? What would that boy's mother think of what he had posted?

What kind of music forum do we want?

Edited by Easy Livin

Give us a chance Peter, we have other lives outside the forum! A post which has been there for 4 months or so, and you're demanding action within the hour.

I agree that the original post you highlighted breached the rules. I have edited it accordingly. I have also edited your posts, which in order to make your point contained graphic references to the very things you took exception to.

 

Easy Livin wrote: Give us a chance Peter, we have other lives outside the forum! A post which has been there for 4 months or so, and you're demanding action within the hour. I agree that the original post you highlighted breached the rules. I have edited it accordingly. I have also edited your posts, which in order to make your point contained graphic references to the very things you took exception to.

Thank you, Easy, you have done the (obviously) right thing, but those lyrics were there for six months, not four, and our former moderator had posted on the very same page (with nary an objecting or explaining word), and other moderators later in the same thread. I find it very hard to believe that I was the first of us to read them. (I was on holiday when they were posted, BTW.)

 

Tony, my friend, I am truly sorry to have to disagree with you on this, and goodness knows I don't want to become a thorn in your side, but I find your arguments defending the poster, and the presence of those absolutely perverted, xxx-rated lyrics here, to be wishful thinking at best, and, at worst, potentially dangerous sophistry. Bear with me for a few moments, please:

Let's imagine that someone writes a post, asking if such and such an album cover (Blind Faith, say) constitutes child pornography, and then another person responds with "No, that's not child porn -- this is child porn," with accompaning images or words. Or, someone asks "Is this racist?" and another responds in a similar fashion, with a posting from a hate or holocaust denial site. Similarly, I could start a thread, with the supposed purpose of combatting porn on the web, and ask people to post examples of the kind of stuff they do not wish to see here, all the while dressing it up as serving some "greater moral purpose." My image of a mass grave at Aushwitz, posted to show where institutionalized racism can lead, was swiftly censored, and perhaps rightly, but a post supposedly put up to show what "really" anti-Christian lyrics looked like, remained until I caused a fuss. (BTW, I was called an "asshole," and roundly condemned by many, as you may recall -- I don't see the youth who posted the material in question here being publicly insulted -- interesting.)

Pete Townshend said he was downloading child porn for "research," but the British authorities did not agree with the niceties of his argument. Hmmmm....

Finally, if the individual who posted those lyrics had elsewhere demonstated high-minded morality and maturity here, I might be more inclined, as you say, to extend him "the benefit of the doubt," but a minor who in the past has insulted a post of mine that simply asked for civility and tolerance, and who posts 99% immature drivel to get a high post count, certainly has NOT demonstated such maturity.

Finally, if such an album as he quoted from were listed here, I would expect that reproduction of the lyrics, for whatever purpose, would be against the rules. One can say "there are some potentially very offensive lyrics concerning necrophilia (and don't censor that word, please, as we have a forum member who calls himself "NecroManiac," and an avatar of a corpse in a Nazi helmet -- see above) with long-dead nuns, and other such things," without quoting the words. Warning labels on albums and movies don't quote or show the offending material to better inform you exactly what is there to avoid, now do they?

Again, I find it disheartening that no one reported this sooner, or that Maani did not take action when those disgusting, sickening words first appeared here.

Perhaps though, I really am out of touch with modern morals, "netiquette," and what a public music forum should be....

I sure hope not.

Edited by Peter

I can sleep at night knowing we have the collective consciences of Peter and MikeEnRegalia to guide us    

ivan_2068 wrote: NecroManiac wrote: I wear a cross sometimes and I'm an atheist. The cross as a symbol is much older than the touture tool, or chirsitianity for that matter. What Cross do you use? Ankh Cross: Also known as Ra Cross, also religious Althaic Cross: Religious symbol Turkish Cross: Also an Armnenian Religuious symbol Croptic Cross: A didfferent version of the Christian Cross Greek Cross: Symbol of perfection and divinity High Cross: Symbol of the Church of Egland Any cross you can mention or use has a religious background, even the heraldic ones (the union of nobility with the Church), so better check what you use because it can be against your Atheist beliefs. Iván

Well, as I said, I'm fascinated with religion, but that does not necisarily mean I belive in the symbols, now do I?
I use it for decorative purpoces only, kind of like wearing a kewl t-shirt with some miscalanius quote on.
Now does the quote on the T-shirt realy mean that I belive that the person besides me is stupid?
And atheism is not a belief sytem, it is a form of philosiphy and skeptic disbelief.
It is not simple the belief for me that "god probably does not exsist", it's the rejection of the idiea that a dogma exist: meaning that "god can not exist".


Edited by NecroManiac

NecroManiac wrote: Well, as I said, I'm fascinated with religion, but that does not necisarily mean I belive in the symbols, now do I? I use it for decorative purpoces only, kind of like wearing a kewl t-shirt with some miscalanius quote on. Now does the quote on the T-shirt realy mean that I belive that the person besides me is stupid?

Well, this proves how different are humans, I won't use a star of David for decorative purposes because I'm Catholic (Despite I respect Judaism as I respect any religion).

But I believe most people will use a religious symbol because they believe in what it represents, and if Threefates says Greg is Christian, I honestly believe her because she really knows the guy.

Iván