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Your favourite Rock Operas?
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Cristi View Drop Down
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Points: 44179 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 08 2024 at 04:31
Originally posted by Jared Jared wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

I know Tommy is considered a rock opera.
It makes sense how you made a difference between rock operas and concept albums. 

A rock opera is a concept album, but a concept album is not a rock opera. LOL
Would you consider some of the Avantasia offerings to be Rock Operas? 

I think Tobias borrowed Arjen's pattern to create concept albums.
I gave his two bands a chance a little while ago, I thought they were cheesy and tedious, if that was possible. LOL
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Points: 19499 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jared Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 08 2024 at 04:38
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

I think Tobias borrowed Arjen's pattern to create concept albums.
I gave his two bands a chance a little while ago, I thought they were cheesy and tedious, if that was possible. LOL

Not a big fan of Avantasia, but I actually find it more enjoyable than Ayreon... it's fairly straightforward Symph Power Metal. It's just that he styled the first two 'The Metal Opera' and most of the ones that followed, seem to follow a similar multi-vocalist pattern.

Another band who seem to have an Operatic feel to their work is Dark Sarah? 
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Points: 21206 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 08 2024 at 04:51
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

I think Tobias borrowed Arjen's pattern to create concept albums.
I gave his two bands a chance a little while ago, I thought they were cheesy and tedious, if that was possible. LOL

Agreed, never could get into Avantasia and Edguy. I tried a couple of times, but I always got *really* bored a couple of songs into the album ...
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Points: 21206 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 08 2024 at 04:51
BTW: One of my favorite rock operas of all time: Kevin Gilbert - The Shaming of the True. 



Edited by MikeEnRegalia - February 08 2024 at 04:54
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Points: 15207 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 08 2024 at 04:53
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

so what's the difference between a rock opera and a concept album? Confused
I'm using RYM's definition: https://rateyourmusic.com/genre/rock-opera/  .
That surely did not help. Confused

RYM's definition says: "A hybrid of rock and, sometimes, musical theatre stylings with heavily rock-tinged songs combining to tell a coherent story. "
So I'd say, the difference is that concept albums don't have to tell a coherent story like Rock Opera albums are supposed to.
                      quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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Points: 40714 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 08 2024 at 05:10
Another Rock Opera favourite...

Epica - We Will Take You With Us - including a mention (in Dutch) at the beginning for Tony Blair - although probably not in a good way, bearing in mind this video is from 2004 in the wake of the disastrous Anglo-American invasion of Iraq. Ouch



Edited by Psychedelic Paul - February 08 2024 at 05:17
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Points: 44179 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 08 2024 at 05:14
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

so what's the difference between a rock opera and a concept album? Confused
I'm using RYM's definition: https://rateyourmusic.com/genre/rock-opera/  .
That surely did not help. Confused

RYM's definition says: "A hybrid of rock and, sometimes, musical theatre stylings with heavily rock-tinged songs combining to tell a coherent story. "
So I'd say, the difference is that concept albums don't have to tell a coherent story like Rock Opera albums are supposed to.


Incoherent story?! Totally disagree here. An incoherent story will make the whole album flawed, lacking any kind of flow, which is essential to a concept album. 

Mike has cleared up the difference, it makes sense. 
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Points: 19499 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jared Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 08 2024 at 05:16
The band I often think about in this regard is Therion, whose music from Theli onwards was often quite Operatic in style, but when they did a full blown Opera, Beloved Antichrist, it was an absolute bore-fest; one disk (of edited highlights) would have been plenty!

I think my fave (if you can call it such) would have been Vanden Plas' Abydos project... really was a great album.
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Points: 20273 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sean Trane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 08 2024 at 05:57
Would one consider Magma's many opus' as rock operas?
let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
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Points: 21206 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 08 2024 at 06:12
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

An incoherent story will make the whole album flawed, lacking any kind of flow, which is essential to a concept album. 

Mike has cleared up the difference, it makes sense. 

Yes, I think we also need to distinguish concept albums from (barely) "themed" albums. The Star One releases are perfect examples of themed albums. All the tracks have a common theme (Sci-Fi movies), but there is no storyline connecting them. Of course it is debatable on a semantic level whether all concepts need to have a storyline ...
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Points: 44179 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 08 2024 at 06:15
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Of course it is debatable on a semantic level whether all concepts need to have a storyline ...

Yes, they do, haven't we just established that?! ConfusedLOL
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Points: 21206 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 08 2024 at 06:23
^ We said so, but we do not have magical power over every person on the planet to make them agree with our decision. Some may decide that some themes can be called concepts even without a proper storyline. LOL
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Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

RYM's definition says: "A hybrid of rock and, sometimes, musical theatre stylings with heavily rock-tinged songs combining to tell a coherent story. "
So I'd say, the difference is that concept albums don't have to tell a coherent story like Rock Opera albums are supposed to.
Incoherent story?! Totally disagree here. An incoherent story will make the whole album flawed, lacking any kind of flow, which is essential to a concept album. 

Mike has cleared up the difference, it makes sense. 

I meant basically that concept albums don't have to tell a story, and yes, RYM's definition is quite in line with Mike's conclusion concerning Wiki's definition.
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Points: 44179 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 08 2024 at 07:52
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

RYM's definition says: "A hybrid of rock and, sometimes, musical theatre stylings with heavily rock-tinged songs combining to tell a coherent story. "
So I'd say, the difference is that concept albums don't have to tell a coherent story like Rock Opera albums are supposed to.
Incoherent story?! Totally disagree here. An incoherent story will make the whole album flawed, lacking any kind of flow, which is essential to a concept album. 

Mike has cleared up the difference, it makes sense. 

I meant basically that concept albums don't have to tell a story, and yes, RYM's definition is quite in line with Mike's conclusion concerning Wiki's definition.

Isn't a concept a story in itself?!

The difference is that in a rock opera, there is a cast of vocalists doing characters, or at least a single vocalist doing all sorts of characters (like King Diamond does in his concept albums). 
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Points: 21206 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 08 2024 at 07:59
^ Concept/theme ... an album about the four "elements" for example might be a concept album for some, while for others it merely has a theme. 

Personally, I like to use labels that are literally true. The word "concept" does not in itself imply a storyline, it's only through usage in the context of albums that this notion emerged. But it did Smile 
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Points: 15207 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 08 2024 at 08:39
Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Would one consider Magma's many opus' as rock operas?

If looking at it from the perspective of RYM's definition ("A hybrid of rock and, sometimes, musical theatre stylings with heavily rock-tinged songs combining to tell a coherent story. "), they're telling a coherent story - as far as I've heard - but the question may be if they're enough heavily rock-tinged.
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^How are any Magma's stories coherent? Unless you speak Kobaļan the lyrics are nothing but gibberish.
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Points: 15207 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 08 2024 at 10:12
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Isn't a concept a story in itself?!

By "story", I mean like a short story with some plot, beginning, action and ending, also like classical operas.
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Points: 44179 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 08 2024 at 10:14
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Isn't a concept a story in itself?!

By "story", I mean like a short story with some plot, beginning, action and ending, also like classical operas.

Yes, that's what I meant. 
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Points: 15261 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 08 2024 at 11:11
Here's a whole list of ROCK OPERAS i made a while back.
A decent description too of what exactly they are

Current number of ROCK OPERA albums i've detected: 589


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