Which are yours?  

I'm using RYM's definition: https://rateyourmusic.com/genre/rock-opera/  .

That surely did not help. 

Concept and vocals. I think the main aspect of a Rock/Metal opera is having a concept involving a narrative with several characters who are singing dialogues, usually with different vocalists. 

oh, got it. 

By this definition, Tommy is not a rock opera. 

But most of Ayreon are rock operas.  

No, I will not tell you that. 

But I will say that I can't stand the band anymore. 

BTW: Listening to Tommy right now, perfectly fits my description. On wikipedia rock opera is just defined as a concept album, but it then goes on to say that  "The use of various character roles within the song lyrics is a common storytelling device." Looking at all the rock operas I know, they all have one or more vocalists singing about an unfolding story involving one or more characters, including Tommy. This distinguishes it from other releases that are merely concept albums. Staying close to Ayreon, examples would be the Star One releases, which are concept/theme based but not quite rock operas. 

I know Tommy is considered a rock opera.

It makes sense how you made a difference between rock operas and concept albums. 

A rock opera is a concept album, but a concept album is not a rock opera. 

 2016: Ayreon - The Theatre Equation -  https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLRPhKLgNffpwY267Kw2NOx5pBMVV7L6iJ" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLRPhKLgNffpwY267Kw2NOx5pBMVV7L6iJ

not heard it for about 30 years, so I'll look forward to some nostalgia!

Would you consider some of the Avantasia offerings to be Rock Operas? 

I think Tobias borrowed Arjen's pattern to create concept albums.

I gave his two bands a chance a little while ago, I thought they were cheesy and tedious, if that was possible. 

Not a big fan of Avantasia, but I actually find it more enjoyable than Ayreon... it's fairly straightforward Symph Power Metal. It's just that he styled the first two 'The Metal Opera' and most of the ones that followed, seem to follow a similar multi-vocalist pattern.

Another band who seem to have an Operatic feel to their work is Dark Sarah? 

Agreed, never could get into Avantasia and Edguy. I tried a couple of times, but I always got *really* bored a couple of songs into the album ...

RYM's definition says: "A hybrid of rock and, sometimes, musical theatre stylings with heavily rock-tinged songs combining to tell a coherent story. "

So I'd say, the difference is that concept albums don't have to tell a coherent story like Rock Opera albums are supposed to.

Epica - We Will Take You With Us - including a mention (in Dutch) at the beginning for Tony Blair - although probably not in a good way, bearing in mind this video is from 2004 in the wake of the disastrous Anglo-American invasion of Iraq. 

Incoherent story?! Totally disagree here. An incoherent story will make the whole album flawed, lacking any kind of flow, which is essential to a concept album. 

Mike has cleared up the difference, it makes sense. 

I think my fave (if you can call it such) would have been Vanden Plas' Abydos project... really was a great album.

Yes, I think we also need to distinguish concept albums from (barely) "themed" albums. The Star One releases are perfect examples of themed albums. All the tracks have a common theme (Sci-Fi movies), but there is no storyline connecting them. Of course it is debatable on a semantic level whether all concepts need to have a storyline ...

Yes, they do, haven't we just established that?! 

I meant basically that concept albums don't have to tell a story, and yes, RYM's definition is quite in line with Mike's conclusion concerning Wiki's definition.

Isn't a concept a story in itself?!

The difference is that in a rock opera, there is a cast of vocalists doing characters, or at least a single vocalist doing all sorts of characters (like King Diamond does in his concept albums). 

Personally, I like to use labels that are literally true. The word "concept" does not in itself imply a storyline, it's only through usage in the context of albums that this notion emerged. But it did  

If looking at it from the perspective of RYM's definition ("A hybrid of rock and, sometimes, musical theatre stylings with heavily rock-tinged songs combining to tell a coherent story. "), they're telling a coherent story - as far as I've heard - but the question may be if they're enough heavily rock-tinged.

By "story", I mean like a short story with some plot, beginning, action and ending, also like classical operas.

Yes, that's what I meant. 

http://rateyourmusic.com/list/siLLy_puPPy/rock-opera-albums-the-complete-list/%20" rel="nofollow - https://rateyourmusic.com/list/siLLy_puPPy/rock-opera-albums-the-complete-list/

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Hi,

And, in general, the majority of "concept" pieces are sung by one person, and it becomes a "make believe" thing for the audience. An opera does has a fairly strong and complete story to tell, and the different vocalists are the various characters in it.

In general, "rock opera" is a term that is slightly mis-used, since just about everything listed here is sung by one person with the exception of a choir/chorus type of moments added. It doesn't exactly, make for a "rock opera" ... since rock bands have very limited use of vocals, by more than one person.

The idea, is good ... the reality is bad and not on par with the music history and its story, where opera has been, generally, very strong and with excellent voices carrying it. I still think of TURANDOT as the best one as it features (in recordings) some insanely beautiful work by Renata Tebaldi and Birgit Nilsson. I don't think that a rock band will ever come close to creating something like that ... in general, rock music is way too simplistic to make the grade.

That looks good to me. 

But I guess it could be possible too to tell a fairly strong and complete story within the lyrics without any characters, 

so characters are maybe not crucial for being considered as Rock opera.

Pink Floyd- "The Wall" 

Gandalf's Fist- " The Clockwork Fable"

The Pretty Things' S.F. Sorrow may be a lesser known Rock opera but is much appreciated, and I'm very fond of it myself....as long as 

I don't begin to think of Oasis . Anyway, here's a sample for those who are not familiar with it:

Tommy and Quadrophenia and Lamb...

Tommy and Lamb (when released) were masterpieces that may not have withstood the test of time so well.  I cringe a little now at the "concepts"... But when younger they were really something.  Quadrophenia holds up better. Never cared much for War of the Worlds but people like it.  

I thought "The Wall" was Pink Floyds biggest slice of cheese the day I first heard it.  but it has a few tracks that work on their own.

JC Superstar Andrew Lloyd Weber...  a brilliant album as far as Rock Operas go.

I've just watched and enjoyed Tommy this afternoon, after years from the last time. My fav is still JCS, anyway. 

In terms of movies, I'd like to watch Peter Watkins' "Privilege" again. I've seen it only once many years ago, but I'm sure that Roger Waters has taken inspiration from it for "The Trial" in "The Wall" 

Merlin: Bard Of The Unseen

Nostradamus: The Fate Of Man

Cleopatra: The Crown Of Isis

the first was an extension of their popular early 80's album 'Merlin', you can find a DVD of the performance which used a back video screen with an orchestra and a couple of ballet dancers front of stage. Sadly the narrator (and joint founder and drummer of the band) Pim Koopman is no longer with us. Due to the poor health of the other joint founder Ton Scherpenzeel they played their farewell tour last year. It's unclear whether the 2021 album release Out Of This World will be their last. Despite not being much talked about, all of their 18 albums have solid ratings. No stinkers!