Forum Home Forum Home > Progressive Music Lounges > Prog Bands, Artists and Genres Appreciation
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Why does everyone hate The Battle Of Epping Forest
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Why does everyone hate The Battle Of Epping Forest
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345 7>
Author
Message
  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Sacro_Porgo View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: July 15 2019
Location: Cygnus
Status: Offline
Points: 2057 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sacro_Porgo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2020 at 02:36
Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Don't feel badly, I quite enjoy "Time Table" on Foxtrot, which earns me great malice amongst Genesis fans! 

"Epping Forest" is decent, but not a masterpiece.  Tony Banks does some great synth leads on that one.


I never knew people were supposed to not like Time Table, I do find it rather beautiful.

The first couple times I heard Foxtrot, Time Table was probably my favorite track. Gorgeous little piece, would've made a fine single. 
Porg for short. My love of music doesn't end with prog! Feel free to discuss all sorts of music with me. Odds are I'll give it a chance if I haven't already! :)
Back to Top
Sacro_Porgo View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: July 15 2019
Location: Cygnus
Status: Offline
Points: 2057 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sacro_Porgo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2020 at 02:39
Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

Man people are just looking for stuff not to like, who is trashing time tables? What’s so offensive about that song or more fool me? Man, I just like music, do people listen to stuff actively trying to find something not to like about it?

Same. More Fool Me would rank as an absolute highlight on any soft rock or singer songwriter album in the 70s, but since it's on a prog rock record it gets a lot of flack for not being prog enough. Of course there was a recent thread where someone claimed Siberian Khatru was disco and totally didn't fit on a prog album, so who knows what's prog enough for a prog album? Wacko
Porg for short. My love of music doesn't end with prog! Feel free to discuss all sorts of music with me. Odds are I'll give it a chance if I haven't already! :)
Back to Top
Sean Trane View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator

Prog Folk

Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20252 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sean Trane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2020 at 02:42
Originally posted by Sacro_Porgo Sacro_Porgo wrote:

Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

Man people are just looking for stuff not to like, who is trashing time tables? What’s so offensive about that song or more fool me? Man, I just like music, do people listen to stuff actively trying to find something not to like about it?

Same. More Fool Me would rank as an absolute highlight on any soft rock or singer songwriter album in the 70s, but since it's on a prog rock record it gets a lot of flack for not being prog enough. Of course there was a recent thread where someone claimed Siberian Khatru was disco and totally didn't fit on a prog album, so who knows what's prog enough for a prog album? Wacko


Before you Wacko anyone on this board, you little Clown, would you care to correct the first Pig word in your signature?? Evil SmileWinkLOL
Back to Top
Sacro_Porgo View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: July 15 2019
Location: Cygnus
Status: Offline
Points: 2057 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sacro_Porgo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2020 at 02:44
Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Originally posted by Sacro_Porgo Sacro_Porgo wrote:

Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

Man people are just looking for stuff not to like, who is trashing time tables? What’s so offensive about that song or more fool me? Man, I just like music, do people listen to stuff actively trying to find something not to like about it?

Same. More Fool Me would rank as an absolute highlight on any soft rock or singer songwriter album in the 70s, but since it's on a prog rock record it gets a lot of flack for not being prog enough. Of course there was a recent thread where someone claimed Siberian Khatru was disco and totally didn't fit on a prog album, so who knows what's prog enough for a prog album? Wacko


Before you Wacko anyone on this board, you little Clown, would you care to correct the first Pig word in your signature?? Evil SmileWinkLOL




Not a Star Wars fan I take it? And sorry if that emoji is offensive. It was the first one I saw that accurately conveyed my confusion at someone saying Siberian Khatru is disco.
Porg for short. My love of music doesn't end with prog! Feel free to discuss all sorts of music with me. Odds are I'll give it a chance if I haven't already! :)
Back to Top
essexboyinwales View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: April 27 2015
Location: Bridgend
Status: Offline
Points: 5003 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote essexboyinwales Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2020 at 03:01
Originally posted by Sacro_Porgo Sacro_Porgo wrote:

Originally posted by essexboyinwales essexboyinwales wrote:

Don't hate it, but don't like it much either.  For me, Genesis had several albums where they felt they had to have a "silly" song (or silly-sounding song), and this is one of them...

SEBTP-TBOEF+SR=GAOAT?

Clap

How do you subtract Epping Forest and add Supper's Ready? SR is more than twice as long, and Epping Forest is already 11 minutes. Not to mention early Genesis albums are always in the 50+ minute range at the absolute capacity for vinyl records.


Who said anything about vinyl?!

I'm just playing fantasy album mash-up.  SEBTP is one of my all time favourite albums, but it isn't perfect due to TBOEF.  So it can't compete with (e.g.) The Human Equation, Weather Systems, Misplaced Childhood, The Road Of Bones, Images And Words... (for the same reason that Money spoils DSOTM)

But, if SEBTP had included Supper's Ready, and not TBOEF, then (in IMHO) it would probably be the best of the whole lot...

Smile
Back to Top
essexboyinwales View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member


Joined: April 27 2015
Location: Bridgend
Status: Offline
Points: 5003 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote essexboyinwales Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2020 at 03:03
Originally posted by essexboyinwales essexboyinwales wrote:

Originally posted by Sacro_Porgo Sacro_Porgo wrote:

Originally posted by essexboyinwales essexboyinwales wrote:

Don't hate it, but don't like it much either.  For me, Genesis had several albums where they felt they had to have a "silly" song (or silly-sounding song), and this is one of them...

SEBTP-TBOEF+SR=GAOAT?

Clap

How do you subtract Epping Forest and add Supper's Ready? SR is more than twice as long, and Epping Forest is already 11 minutes. Not to mention early Genesis albums are always in the 50+ minute range at the absolute capacity for vinyl records.


Who said anything about vinyl?!

I'm just playing fantasy album mash-up.  SEBTP is one of my all time favourite albums, but it isn't perfect due to TBOEF.  So it can't compete with (e.g.) The Human Equation, Weather Systems, Misplaced Childhood, The Road Of Bones, Images And Words... (for the same reason that Money spoils DSOTM)

But, if SEBTP had included Supper's Ready, and not TBOEF, then (in IMHO) it would probably be the best of the whole lot...

Smile


Oh, and surely TBOEF is more like 19 minutes, not 11?  It sure as hell feels like it....
Back to Top
Sacro_Porgo View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: July 15 2019
Location: Cygnus
Status: Offline
Points: 2057 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sacro_Porgo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2020 at 03:07
Originally posted by essexboyinwales essexboyinwales wrote:

Originally posted by essexboyinwales essexboyinwales wrote:

Originally posted by Sacro_Porgo Sacro_Porgo wrote:

Originally posted by essexboyinwales essexboyinwales wrote:

Don't hate it, but don't like it much either.  For me, Genesis had several albums where they felt they had to have a "silly" song (or silly-sounding song), and this is one of them...

SEBTP-TBOEF+SR=GAOAT?

Clap

How do you subtract Epping Forest and add Supper's Ready? SR is more than twice as long, and Epping Forest is already 11 minutes. Not to mention early Genesis albums are always in the 50+ minute range at the absolute capacity for vinyl records.


Who said anything about vinyl?!

I'm just playing fantasy album mash-up.  SEBTP is one of my all time favourite albums, but it isn't perfect due to TBOEF.  So it can't compete with (e.g.) The Human Equation, Weather Systems, Misplaced Childhood, The Road Of Bones, Images And Words... (for the same reason that Money spoils DSOTM)

But, if SEBTP had included Supper's Ready, and not TBOEF, then (in IMHO) it would probably be the best of the whole lot...

Smile


Oh, and surely TBOEF is more like 19 minutes, not 11?  It sure as hell feels like it....

lol
Porg for short. My love of music doesn't end with prog! Feel free to discuss all sorts of music with me. Odds are I'll give it a chance if I haven't already! :)
Back to Top
Sacro_Porgo View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: July 15 2019
Location: Cygnus
Status: Offline
Points: 2057 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sacro_Porgo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2020 at 03:08
Originally posted by essexboyinwales essexboyinwales wrote:

Originally posted by Sacro_Porgo Sacro_Porgo wrote:

Originally posted by essexboyinwales essexboyinwales wrote:

Don't hate it, but don't like it much either.  For me, Genesis had several albums where they felt they had to have a "silly" song (or silly-sounding song), and this is one of them...

SEBTP-TBOEF+SR=GAOAT?

Clap

How do you subtract Epping Forest and add Supper's Ready? SR is more than twice as long, and Epping Forest is already 11 minutes. Not to mention early Genesis albums are always in the 50+ minute range at the absolute capacity for vinyl records.


Who said anything about vinyl?!

I'm just playing fantasy album mash-up.  SEBTP is one of my all time favourite albums, but it isn't perfect due to TBOEF.  So it can't compete with (e.g.) The Human Equation, Weather Systems, Misplaced Childhood, The Road Of Bones, Images And Words... (for the same reason that Money spoils DSOTM)

But, if SEBTP had included Supper's Ready, and not TBOEF, then (in IMHO) it would probably be the best of the whole lot...

Smile

Fair. I had thought you meant you wished Genesis had saved SR for SEBTP and cut Epping Forest to make room for it.
Porg for short. My love of music doesn't end with prog! Feel free to discuss all sorts of music with me. Odds are I'll give it a chance if I haven't already! :)
Back to Top
Sean Trane View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator

Prog Folk

Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20252 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sean Trane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2020 at 03:19
Originally posted by Sacro_Porgo Sacro_Porgo wrote:

Not a Star Wars fan I take it? And sorry if that emoji is offensive. It was the first one I saw that accurately conveyed my confusion at someone saying Siberian Khatru is disco.


Nah, the smiley wasn't offensive (at least to me) as I don't consider SK disco as wellLOL

And OK, now I +/- get it (though I'm not familiar at all with Star Wars), but more via your username than the saga itself, since I don't know who or what porg is (it sounds like porc - hence my Pig smiley)Tongue. It's a weird play on words, than, I suppose??

BTW: confusion would be more like Confused than the Wacko - wghich seems more like whackiness to me. Wink
Back to Top
Sacro_Porgo View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: July 15 2019
Location: Cygnus
Status: Offline
Points: 2057 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sacro_Porgo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2020 at 03:29
Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Originally posted by Sacro_Porgo Sacro_Porgo wrote:

Not a Star Wars fan I take it? And sorry if that emoji is offensive. It was the first one I saw that accurately conveyed my confusion at someone saying Siberian Khatru is disco.


Nah, the smiley wasn't offensive (at least to me) as I don't consider SK disco as wellLOL

And OK, now I +/- get it (though I'm not familiar at all with Star Wars), but more via your username than the saga itself, since I don't know who or what porg is (it sounds like porc - hence my Pig smiley)Tongue. It's a weird play on words, than, I suppose??

BTW: confusion would be more like Confused than the Wacko - wghich seems more like whackiness to me. Wink

Ah yes, that's the one I was looking for, thank you! And yeah, I just find it a funny little play on words since Star Wars has a creature called a Porg and that's so close to the word prog.
Porg for short. My love of music doesn't end with prog! Feel free to discuss all sorts of music with me. Odds are I'll give it a chance if I haven't already! :)
Back to Top
Tom Ozric View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: September 03 2005
Location: Olympus Mons
Status: Offline
Points: 15921 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tom Ozric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2020 at 04:21
The song is a bit wordy, but still a great piece of Prog. I’ve never met any Genesis fan that dislikes it though.
P.S. - I love Rutherford’s Bass tone - just a great, almost glassy Rickenbacker sound - Squire never got this tone.
Back to Top
richardh View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 28126 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 22 2020 at 23:57
Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Don't feel badly, I quite enjoy "Time Table" on Foxtrot, which earns me great malice amongst Genesis fans! 

"Epping Forest" is decent, but not a masterpiece.  Tony Banks does some great synth leads on that one.


I never knew people were supposed to not like Time Table, I do find it rather beautiful.
 

that is indeed a beautiful song. Foxtrot is an album I don't find any fault with although Watcher Of The Skies tends to be the slightly controversial track for some reason.
Back to Top
Sean Trane View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator

Prog Folk

Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20252 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sean Trane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2020 at 01:59
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Don't feel badly, I quite enjoy "Time Table" on Foxtrot, which earns me great malice amongst Genesis fans! 

"Epping Forest" is decent, but not a masterpiece.  Tony Banks does some great synth leads on that one.


I never knew people were supposed to not like Time Table, I do find it rather beautiful.
 

that is indeed a beautiful song. Foxtrot is an album I don't find any fault with although Watcher Of The Skies tends to be the slightly controversial track for some reason.


the A-side is rather flawed IMHO

Not a fan of Watcher (the intro last way too long), Friday is relatively good (but the band has yet to find its ground with those rock operas - Epping Forest will be much better), Timetable is really not good. Only Can Utility is ultra-great and I even find it superior to Supper, because it condenses everything they can do in less than 6 minutes.
Back to Top
M27Barney View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: November 09 2006
Location: Swinton M27
Status: Offline
Points: 3136 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M27Barney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2020 at 03:17
The real controversy are those people who rate the collins sung abortion above the best rock opera that Genesis produced. I often fantasise about digital and CD being invented in 1970...Then you have SEBTP....
DOWTMK..13:02..
IKWIL...6:09..
FOF..21:12..
BOEF...23:49..
TCS...16:00..
In fact when I retire and convert my double garage into a recording studio, I may start a project to extend my fave symphonic prog...its a good retirement plan to have...
Back to Top
Tom Ozric View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: September 03 2005
Location: Olympus Mons
Status: Offline
Points: 15921 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Tom Ozric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2020 at 04:29
^ More Fool Me is a quaint little ditty. Sweet and innocent. How could you refer to it as a ‘Collins sung abortion’ ?? Bit harsh methinks.
And After the Ordeal is quite a lovely instrumental. I’d never ditch anything on SEBTP.
Back to Top
Frenetic Zetetic View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: December 09 2017
Location: Now
Status: Offline
Points: 9233 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frenetic Zetetic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2020 at 05:46
More Fool Me prevents SEBTP from being the truly perfect prog gem many claim it to be, IMHO.

"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021
Back to Top
dougmcauliffe View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 23 2019
Location: US
Status: Offline
Points: 3895 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote dougmcauliffe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2020 at 07:44
I just dont get what's so offensively bad about More Fool Me
The sun has left the sky...
...Now you can close your eyes
Back to Top
The Dark Elf View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar
VIP Member

Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 13065 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Dark Elf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2020 at 07:48
Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

I just dont get what's so offensively bad about More Fool Me

It is short and soon over, which is its saving grace. The same cannot be said for Epping Forest which drags on 5 or 6 minutes longer than its expiration date, hence its stench.
...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
Back to Top
Sean Trane View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator

Prog Folk

Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20252 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sean Trane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2020 at 08:59
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

I just dont get what's so offensively bad about More Fool Me

It is short and soon over, which is its saving grace. The same cannot be said for Epping Forest which drags on 5 or 6 minutes longer than its expiration date, hence its stench.


Not short enough, IMHO.

1- Even at the same length as (the much-better) For Absent Friends (1'30") it would still overstay its welcome by its entire duration.

2- MFM is totally out of context of the album's concept, which is about the collapse of the British Empire and the decadence of the English model.

3- musically, it's completely dire and dry (downright poor, I should be tempted to write), even when compared to the other less complex tracks (Wardrobe and Ordeal)

4- I'm not even sure Collins would find a spot for this MFM track on his 80's solo albums, however poor & suckish they would be.
Back to Top
BrufordFreak View Drop Down
Collaborator
Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: January 25 2008
Location: Wisconsin
Status: Offline
Points: 8221 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrufordFreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 23 2020 at 09:48
RE OP:  The music sucks.

I don't hear/am not interested in lyrics, thus I don't know what it's about (or particularly care). 
Drew Fisher
https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345 7>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.500 seconds.
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.