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Svetonio
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Posted: February 27 2015 at 09:52 |
earlyprog wrote:
If the genre is not obvious and the music covers a wide range of genres this would indicate proto-prog. |
But it could indicate Eclectic prog too.
Would you describe any of their 60s' (or later for that matter) albums as full-blown prog?
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The first four.
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earlyprog
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Posted: February 27 2015 at 10:26 |
Svetonio wrote:
earlyprog wrote:
If the genre is not obvious and the music covers a wide range of genres this would indicate proto-prog. | But it could indicate Eclectic prog too.
Would you describe any of their 60s' (or later for that matter) albums as full-blown prog?
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The first four. |
This would make their s/t debut the first prog album I suppose. Never heard that before.
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SteveG
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Posted: February 27 2015 at 10:38 |
^No, some fan of The Nice would probably dispute that!
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earlyprog
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Posted: February 27 2015 at 10:54 |
I don't find any of the songs on Spirit 's s/t full-blown prog, sections of them perhaps. (Revision: not even sections are full-blown prog.)
Straight Arrow is perhaps best described as country music (with a jazzy section), Girl In Your Eye is a silly UK psyche thing, Gramophone Man is pop/R&B (with a jazzy section) and so is Topanga Windows, Water Woman is folk. This alone constitutes about half of the album. And then I'm not even mentioning the rest individually song by song which at best is 50 % prog per song.
Edited by earlyprog - February 27 2015 at 10:59
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Svetonio
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Posted: February 27 2015 at 10:58 |
earlyprog wrote:
Svetonio wrote:
earlyprog wrote:
If the genre is not obvious and the music covers a wide range of genres this would indicate proto-prog. | But it could indicate Eclectic prog too.
Would you describe any of their 60s' (or later for that matter) albums as full-blown prog?
|
The first four. |
This would make their s/t debut the first prog album I suppose. Never heard that before. |
Nope. Freak Out! comes first.
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SteveG
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Posted: February 27 2015 at 11:00 |
@ EarlyProg: And what Prog group from the seventies did not incorporate some or all of these features into their music at one time or another? And you left out Folk Rock as one of Spirit's song descriptors.
Edited by SteveG - February 27 2015 at 11:01
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SteveG
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Posted: February 27 2015 at 11:07 |
Svetonio wrote:
earlyprog wrote:
Svetonio wrote:
earlyprog wrote:
If the genre is not obvious and the music covers a wide range of genres this would indicate proto-prog. | But it could indicate Eclectic prog too.
Would you describe any of their 60s' (or later for that matter) albums as full-blown prog?
|
The first four. |
This would make their s/t debut the first prog album I suppose. Never heard that before. | Nope. Freak Out! comes first.
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Satirical rock is not Prog to me. For Zappa, that came later with his fusion experiments like Hot Rats.
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earlyprog
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Posted: February 27 2015 at 11:08 |
^^You can call it any kind of folk just not Prog Folk, Steve.
Edited by earlyprog - February 27 2015 at 11:09
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Svetonio
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Posted: February 27 2015 at 11:18 |
earlyprog wrote:
I don't find any of the songs on Spirit 's s/t full-blown prog, sections of them perhaps. (Revision: not even sections are full-blown prog.)
Straight Arrow is perhaps best described as country music (with a jazzy section), Girl In Your Eye is a silly UK psyche thing, Gramophone Man is pop/R&B (with a jazzy section) and so is Topanga Windows, Water Woman is folk. This alone constitutes about half of the album. And then I'm not even mentioning the rest individually song by song which at best is 50 % prog per song.
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It's that early, 60s prog. The same thing is with e.g. English prog band Family. However, If you search for "full-prog" 60s albums on that ridiculously wrong way then you will hardly find even In the Court of the Crimson King as an "full-prog" album because I Talk To The Wind is a pop song (a great pop, though). And also, following that pretzel logic, one can say that 21 Century Schizoid Man is "heavy psych, not prog".
Edited by Svetonio - February 27 2015 at 11:19
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SteveG
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Posted: February 27 2015 at 11:22 |
earlyprog wrote:
^^You can call it any kind of folk just not Prog Folk, Steve.
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Fair enough. Spirit are classified exactly where they should be in PA under Proto-Stairway to Heaven. ![LOL LOL](smileys/smiley36.gif) Have a good evening, Dan. ![Smile Smile](smileys/smiley1.gif)
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SteveG
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Posted: February 27 2015 at 11:24 |
Svetonio wrote:
earlyprog wrote:
I don't find any of the songs on Spirit 's s/t full-blown prog, sections of them perhaps. (Revision: not even sections are full-blown prog.)
Straight Arrow is perhaps best described as country music (with a jazzy section), Girl In Your Eye is a silly UK psyche thing, Gramophone Man is pop/R&B (with a jazzy section) and so is Topanga Windows, Water Woman is folk. This alone constitutes about half of the album. And then I'm not even mentioning the rest individually song by song which at best is 50 % prog per song.
| It's that early, 60s prog. The same thing is with e.g. English prog band Family. However, If you search for "full-prog" 60s albums on that ridiculously wrong way then you will hardly find even In the Court of the Crimson King as an "full-prog" album because I Talk To The Wind is a pop song (a great pop, though). And also, following that pretzel logic, one can say that 21 Century Schizoid Man is "heavy psych, not prog".
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Well done Sventonio!
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Svetonio
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Posted: February 27 2015 at 11:24 |
SteveG wrote:
Svetonio wrote:
earlyprog wrote:
Svetonio wrote:
earlyprog wrote:
If the genre is not obvious and the music covers a wide range of genres this would indicate proto-prog. | But it could indicate Eclectic prog too.
Would you describe any of their 60s' (or later for that matter) albums as full-blown prog?
|
The first four. |
This would make their s/t debut the first prog album I suppose. Never heard that before. | Nope. Freak Out! comes first.
|
Satirical rock is not Prog to me. For Zappa, that came later with his fusion experiments like Hot Rats. | Hot Rats?! Oh no, the first Zappa's prog album is The Ship Arriving Too Late To Save A Drowning Witch
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SteveG
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Posted: February 27 2015 at 11:26 |
^Fair enough. ![LOL LOL](smileys/smiley36.gif) Goodnight to you too, Sventonio.
Edited by SteveG - February 27 2015 at 11:28
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earlyprog
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Posted: February 27 2015 at 11:30 |
Svetonio wrote:
earlyprog wrote:
I don't find any of the songs on Spirit 's s/t full-blown prog, sections of them perhaps. (Revision: not even sections are full-blown prog.)
Straight Arrow is perhaps best described as country music (with a jazzy section), Girl In Your Eye is a silly UK psyche thing, Gramophone Man is pop/R&B (with a jazzy section) and so is Topanga Windows, Water Woman is folk. This alone constitutes about half of the album. And then I'm not even mentioning the rest individually song by song which at best is 50 % prog per song.
| It's that early, 60s prog. The same thing is with e.g. English prog band Family. However, If you search for "full-prog" 60s albums on that ridiculously wrong way then you will hardly find even In the Court of the Crimson King as an "full-prog" album because I Talk To The Wind is a pop song (a great pop, though). And also, following that pretzel logic, one can say that 21 Century Schizoid Man is "heavy psych, not prog".
|
If you believe 30% prog on an album makes it a prog album it's fine with me. But there is a long way up say 90 % prog as on ItCotCK.
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SteveG
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Posted: February 27 2015 at 11:31 |
Btw, It's A Beautiful Day deserves a shout out just for being ripped off so much! Great first album!
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SteveG
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Posted: February 27 2015 at 11:35 |
earlyprog wrote:
Svetonio wrote:
earlyprog wrote:
I don't find any of the songs on Spirit 's s/t full-blown prog, sections of them perhaps. (Revision: not even sections are full-blown prog.)
Straight Arrow is perhaps best described as country music (with a jazzy section), Girl In Your Eye is a silly UK psyche thing, Gramophone Man is pop/R&B (with a jazzy section) and so is Topanga Windows, Water Woman is folk. This alone constitutes about half of the album. And then I'm not even mentioning the rest individually song by song which at best is 50 % prog per song.
| It's that early, 60s prog. The same thing is with e.g. English prog band Family. However, If you search for "full-prog" 60s albums on that ridiculously wrong way then you will hardly find even In the Court of the Crimson King as an "full-prog" album because I Talk To The Wind is a pop song (a great pop, though). And also, following that pretzel logic, one can say that 21 Century Schizoid Man is "heavy psych, not prog".
|
If you believe 30% prog on an album makes it a prog album it's fine with me. But there is a long way up say 90 % prog as on ItCotCK. |
100%-30%=70%. No cheating now!
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Svetonio
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Posted: February 27 2015 at 11:37 |
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earlyprog
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Posted: February 27 2015 at 11:39 |
Steve, it's getting that time of the week where I cannot think clearly ![Wink Wink](smileys/smiley2.gif)
What I was tryng to say is that a 30 % prog album like Spirit's s/t is far from the 90 % prog of ItCotCK.
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Svetonio
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Posted: February 27 2015 at 11:41 |
earlyprog wrote:
Svetonio wrote:
earlyprog wrote:
I don't find any of the songs on Spirit 's s/t full-blown prog, sections of them perhaps. (Revision: not even sections are full-blown prog.)
Straight Arrow is perhaps best described as country music (with a jazzy section), Girl In Your Eye is a silly UK psyche thing, Gramophone Man is pop/R&B (with a jazzy section) and so is Topanga Windows, Water Woman is folk. This alone constitutes about half of the album. And then I'm not even mentioning the rest individually song by song which at best is 50 % prog per song.
| It's that early, 60s prog. The same thing is with e.g. English prog band Family. However, If you search for "full-prog" 60s albums on that ridiculously wrong way then you will hardly find even In the Court of the Crimson King as an "full-prog" album because I Talk To The Wind is a pop song (a great pop, though). And also, following that pretzel logic, one can say that 21 Century Schizoid Man is "heavy psych, not prog".
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If you believe 30% prog on an album makes it a prog album it's fine with me. (...)
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It would be, because that specific weight of the quantity of prog is always higher than the specific weight of the amount of non-prog in a 60s prog album.
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earlyprog
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Posted: February 27 2015 at 11:43 |
^Ok, I have no clue at the moment what you are saying Sventonio, so it's time for me to check out of this discussion
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