American Proto-Prog
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Other music related lounges
Forum Name: Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge
Forum Description: Discuss bands and albums classified as Proto-Prog and Prog-Related
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=101478
Printed Date: December 18 2024 at 07:52
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: American Proto-Prog
Posted By: Stool Man
Subject: American Proto-Prog
Date Posted: February 22 2015 at 08:27
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Some hugely successful names in this poll, and some highly popular less-successful names too. But which do you prefer? ------------- rotten hound of the burnie crew |
Replies:
Posted By: TeleStrat
Date Posted: February 22 2015 at 08:54
| There are some great bands listed here but I just wouldn't feel right if I didn't pick Jimi. |
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: February 22 2015 at 09:01
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No Blue Cheer? I can't vote as i don't know some bands, some i don't care for, so... |
Posted By: Stool Man
Date Posted: February 22 2015 at 09:13
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Blue Cheer aren't on PA Neither are The Amboy Dukes, before anyone asks ------------- rotten hound of the burnie crew |
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: February 22 2015 at 09:42
ok then, my bad |
Stool Man wrote:Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: February 22 2015 at 09:54
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Haven't heard all of them, but the Airplane blows away everything I have heard on the list. |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: February 22 2015 at 14:01
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Really tough choices there.......Doors, Spirit, Hendrix, Airplane, etc...love most of those bands o n the list... if I have to choose I'll go with Spirit due to Dr Sardonicus but tomorrow I might say Airplane due to Volunteers or Doors due to Strange Days.....  ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: Kayleur
Date Posted: February 22 2015 at 14:23
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Good to see Sweetwater mentioned. ................ The two Earth Opera lps are total bore-duds to my ears. |
Posted By: mithrandir
Date Posted: February 22 2015 at 14:40
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I voted for Touch, and will probably be the only one too |
Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: February 22 2015 at 15:15
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Spirit is probably the best proto-prog band that isn't a household name like Zeppelin, Airplane, etc. I love them dearly, and vote for them without hesitation. ------------- My other avatar is a Porsche It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased. -Kehlog Albran |
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: February 22 2015 at 16:07
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Too many, too good. I suppose Hendrix musically, and The Doors lyrically and stylistically. But The United States of America's album is one the best psych album ever, and etc. And this poll neglects so many, particularly Love and their superb album Forever Changes (whether listed here or not). A great album from the 60s. ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: Stool Man
Date Posted: February 22 2015 at 17:25
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This poll includes every American band listed on PA as Proto Prog. Omissions are either listed under a different subgenre, or they're not here at all. Love were suggested and discussed http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=42965" rel="nofollow - here in 2007 ------------- rotten hound of the burnie crew |
Posted By: earlyprog
Date Posted: February 27 2015 at 06:57
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Practically all the bands embraced by PA that released music in the 60's were what PA today would call proto-prog at the time. The best US proto-prog was released by the bands that later evolved into full-prog. These bands include The Mothers Of Invention, Captain Beefheart, Ultimate Spinach, The Mandrake Memorial, Music Emporium, Valhalla, The Advancement, The Flock a.o. Among the bands that never reached beyond proto-prog and listed in the poll, Spirit, H.P. Lovecraft and Touch are the ones I enjoy the most. The latter gets my vote.
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Posted By: CPicard
Date Posted: February 27 2015 at 07:28
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I've listened to Jimi Hendrix, Spirit, H.P. Lovecraft, some songs from the Doors, Iron Butterfly, but only the Silver Apples left me without breath and out of my mind. Besides them, I still pledge my allegiance to Hendrix and Iron Butterfly for their participation to the building of hard rock and heavy metal. |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: February 27 2015 at 08:08
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There's a lot of bands listed here that I ain't heard of (yeah I'm a Brit, it's clearly my loss) but as much as I adore the Doors and admire the Airplane's Surrealistic Pillow album and acknowledge that Hendrix was routinely cited as a massive influence by subsequent proggers far and wide, (together with the United States of America's sole album being a 'shoo in belter' and covered by the Fall dammit).... I can't really hear any extant residue of their inspiration on the so called stalwarts of early 70's Prog i.e. Crimson. ELP, Yes, Genesis, Tull, Gentle Giant, VDGG (That's not the stated aim of the poll so it's just an observation, not a criticism - i.e US proto clearly diverged from its European counterpart in manifesting itself in subsequent developments that were closer to Krautrock/RIO Avant in spirit rather than eclectic/symph ) ------------- 
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Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: February 27 2015 at 08:31
| Although I am more familiar with Jimi' s or The Doors' catalogue, I voted Spirit just as my personal little protest against a wrong decision that the Sprit should be listed in PA as a "proto" (i.e. not prog) act, i.e. Spirit would be in a full-prog category of PA. |
Posted By: earlyprog
Date Posted: February 27 2015 at 08:34
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Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: February 27 2015 at 09:18
I think that the genre would be http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Oif6-JWTkI" rel="nofollow - Eclectic , https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpAx5VqzzUo" rel="nofollow - Psych/Space or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFHLO_2_THg" rel="nofollow - Crossover . |
Posted By: earlyprog
Date Posted: February 27 2015 at 09:29
If the genre is not obvious and the music covers a wide range of genres this would indicate proto-prog. Would you describe any of their 60s' (or later for that matter) albums as full-blown prog?
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: February 27 2015 at 09:40
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Spirit. Hendrix is one of my heroes but he will always be a psychedelic acid rock god to me. Spirit were Prog! ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: February 27 2015 at 09:52
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Posted By: earlyprog
Date Posted: February 27 2015 at 10:26
This would make their s/t debut the first prog album I suppose. Never heard that before.
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: February 27 2015 at 10:38
^No, some fan of The Nice would probably dispute that!  ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: earlyprog
Date Posted: February 27 2015 at 10:54
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I don't find any of the songs on Spirit 's s/t full-blown prog, sections of them perhaps. (Revision: not even sections are full-blown prog.) Straight Arrow is perhaps best described as country music (with a jazzy section), Girl In Your Eye is a silly UK psyche thing, Gramophone Man is pop/R&B (with a jazzy section) and so is Topanga Windows, Water Woman is folk. This alone constitutes about half of the album. And then I'm not even mentioning the rest individually song by song which at best is 50 % prog per song.
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Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: February 27 2015 at 10:58
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: February 27 2015 at 11:00
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@ mailto:@Early" rel="nofollow - EarlyProg : And what Prog group from the seventies did not incorporate some or all of these features into their music at one time or another? And you left out Folk Rock as one of Spirit's song descriptors.
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: February 27 2015 at 11:07
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Posted By: earlyprog
Date Posted: February 27 2015 at 11:08
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^^You can call it any kind of folk just not Prog Folk, Steve.
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Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: February 27 2015 at 11:18
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: February 27 2015 at 11:22
Have a good evening, Dan. ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: February 27 2015 at 11:24
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Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: February 27 2015 at 11:24
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: February 27 2015 at 11:26
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^Fair enough. Goodnight to you too, Sventonio.
------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: earlyprog
Date Posted: February 27 2015 at 11:30
If you believe 30% prog on an album makes it a prog album it's fine with me. But there is a long way up say 90 % prog as on ItCotCK.
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: February 27 2015 at 11:31
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Btw, It's A Beautiful Day deserves a shout out just for being ripped off so much! Great first album! ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: February 27 2015 at 11:35
------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: February 27 2015 at 11:37
 |
Posted By: earlyprog
Date Posted: February 27 2015 at 11:39
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Steve, it's getting that time of the week where I cannot think clearly What I was tryng to say is that a 30 % prog album like Spirit's s/t is far from the 90 % prog of ItCotCK.
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Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: February 27 2015 at 11:41
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Posted By: earlyprog
Date Posted: February 27 2015 at 11:43
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^Ok, I have no clue at the moment what you are saying Sventonio, so it's time for me to check out of this discussion
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Posted By: Komandant Shamal
Date Posted: February 27 2015 at 11:47
| Iron Butterfly. |
Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: February 27 2015 at 12:06
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Just an idle thought about Spirit, seeing as we have a "spirited" convo
going here. Thinking back to 1968, when Spirit's first album came out,
at that time there were very few (if any) precedents for the
combination of elements they employed on that album. Progressive Rock
as a genre didn't "really" exist yet (ok, maybe you think it did... but
it certainly didn't have a lot of adherents yet if it did). I think of
Progressive Rock, in historical terms, as really "taking off" when King
Crimson wowed everyone with their album in 1969. That seemed to open
the floodgates. Now imagine for a moment: what if Spirit's first album had "taken off" in a similar fashion? What if lots of "Spirit wannabes" had come out of the woodwork and Prog with a Capital P had evolved from there? Right now we would likely be talking about Spirit's first album the way we talk about ITCHCOCK. My point is that what we generally agree here about what is "Prog" or "not Prog" is HIGHLY influenced by historical factors - how it actually went down in the old days. Love them or not, Spirit kind of fell through the cracks and they arguably missed their chance to really shape the future of rock music, simply because they failed to capture the imagination of enough people. But that is not the same as saying that their music wasn't progressive, or that they "shouldn't be" prog - indeed, they should have, if I could only go back in time and change history so that Spirit makes a bigger dent in our collective culture. Their music remains as daring and original as ever - but the masses have spoken, and who are we to rewrite that history? ------------- My other avatar is a Porsche It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased. -Kehlog Albran |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: February 27 2015 at 14:19
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^My opinions on music's origins are obviously influenced by the social and cultural conditions that existed at a specific location and time of any music genre's formation and development. I've often wondered how Spirit's debut album would have been received if Spirit had been a British band instead of an American one. Would it have fallen into the Progressive Music zeitgeist of other heady British bands? Or would it have had the same critical reaction in the U.K. as it had in the U.S.? As some wise person once said "you have to be in the right place at the right time."
------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: Barbu
Date Posted: February 28 2015 at 17:42
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Iron Butterfly ------------- |
Posted By: sublime220
Date Posted: February 28 2015 at 17:53
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Oh! Move over Rover, and let Jimi take over! Yeah, you know what I'm talking 'bout. ------------- There is no dark side in the moon, really... Matter of fact, it's all dark... |
Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: March 27 2015 at 07:47
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZzFzaCVEtU" rel="nofollow - What a song!  |
Posted By: Michael678
Date Posted: March 27 2015 at 14:25
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The Doors!!!!! ------------- Progrockdude |
Posted By: relayer348
Date Posted: April 15 2015 at 20:16
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Hmm, was listening to some old stuff that I had transfered to CD years ago abnd ran accross The Advancement "Painful Struggle" . Google lead me here and found band members and track list. Pretty cool for 1969, got the album at a cutout bin at Zayers discount for .49. one of my best purchases. |
Posted By: The.Crimson.King
Date Posted: June 05 2015 at 00:17
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Jimi is my single fave musician on the list, but the Doors get my vote as the best band ------------- https://wytchcrypt.wixsite.com/mutiny-in-jonestown" rel="nofollow - Mutiny in Jonestown : Progressive Rock Since 1987 |
Posted By: Intruder
Date Posted: December 11 2015 at 09:05
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Where are the Grateful Dead? Man, the anti-Dead backlash on PA is inexplicable....Jefferson Airplane and the Doors as progressive but no Dead? Sweetwater? I think maybe those who aren't from the US have a skewered idea of what the Grateful Dead are. Wake up and put on the Dead! ------------- I like to feel the suspense when you're certain you know I am there..... |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: December 11 2015 at 12:44
I like the Dead...have all the early stuff (Aoxomoxoa being my favorite...) ,but I'm not sure they qualify as proto-prog which was the thread title. Your thoughts....? ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: TeleStrat
Date Posted: December 11 2015 at 13:29
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Jimi Hendrix would get my vote on any list of American bands. Several would compete for second place but none would even tie Hendrix for the top slot.
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Posted By: Rando
Date Posted: January 02 2016 at 20:27
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The Doors "L.A. Woman" is their definitive masterpiece that transcends time.  ------------- - Music is Life, that's why our hearts have beats - |