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Poxx View Drop Down
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Points: 231 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2005 at 07:34
Originally posted by firth_of_Fifth firth_of_Fifth wrote:

Originally posted by Poxx Poxx wrote:

I would prefer for them all to shut up completely, but since that's not going to happen, I would rather they sung in English, allowing me to understand their bullsh*t, so I can once more dismiss the inane lyrics as bullsh*t.

Seriously, are the lyrics really that special and counter-universal that only your fellow countrymen will get the idea? If you just don't know English - haven't learned in school, the chances are that your country just flat out suck, and you do too.

I know you think it's all high and holy, not to mention damn friggin intellectual when some fool sings in Italian. But in fact, he's just a major goofhead who never went to school.



Why does everyone have to sing in english?

You're obviously not that smart if you've never heard of a translator.

ABBA are the best foreign prog band for singing in english

I always enjoy a good bit of Latin...Gaudete, Gaudete. Christus est natus. ex maria virgine Gaudete! (if memory serves me correctly)

What are you talking about, nitwit? The whole point of why you should sing in English(and make lyrics in english in the first place) is that you can't convert lyrics into english, without losing meaning and/or song structure.

Bands don't "have to" sing in English, but the thing is if they don't, it's quite often because they are unable to. Singing in English, allows for the most people to hace a chance of understanding the lyrics, should they give a damn.
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Points: 5964 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2005 at 07:37
Originally posted by Poxx Poxx wrote:

Originally posted by firth_of_Fifth firth_of_Fifth wrote:

Originally posted by Poxx Poxx wrote:

I would prefer for them all to shut up completely, but since that's not going to happen, I would rather they sung in English, allowing me to understand their bullsh*t, so I can once more dismiss the inane lyrics as bullsh*t.

Seriously, are the lyrics really that special and counter-universal that only your fellow countrymen will get the idea? If you just don't know English - haven't learned in school, the chances are that your country just flat out suck, and you do too.

I know you think it's all high and holy, not to mention damn friggin intellectual when some fool sings in Italian. But in fact, he's just a major goofhead who never went to school.



Why does everyone have to sing in english?

You're obviously not that smart if you've never heard of a translator.

ABBA are the best foreign prog band for singing in english

I always enjoy a good bit of Latin...Gaudete, Gaudete. Christus est natus. ex maria virgine Gaudete! (if memory serves me correctly)

What are you talking about, nitwit? The whole point of why you should sing in English(and make lyrics in english in the first place) is that you can't convert lyrics into english, without losing meaning and/or song structure.

Bands don't "have to" sing in English, but the thing is if they don't, it's quite often because they are unable to. Singing in English, allows for the most people to hace a chance of understanding the lyrics, should they give a damn.



Could you be a little less agressive please? Especially in my threads.
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Poxx View Drop Down
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Points: 231 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2005 at 07:37
Originally posted by Trouserpress Trouserpress wrote:

Originally posted by Poxx Poxx wrote:

I would prefer for them all to shut up completely, but since that's not going to happen, I would rather they sung in English, allowing me to understand their bullsh*t, so I can once more dismiss the inane lyrics as bullsh*t.

Seriously, are the lyrics really that special and counter-universal that only your fellow countrymen will get the idea? If you just don't know English - haven't learned in school, the chances are that your country just flat out suck, and you do too.

I know you think it's all high and holy, not to mention damn friggin intellectual when some fool sings in Italian. But in fact, he's just a major goofhead who never went to school.



Posts like this really depress me.

I have this thing, where I use improper language to cover the blatant truth, offending inferior minds in the process, for the sole purpose of amusement. Don't be one of them.
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firth_of_Fifth View Drop Down
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Points: 192 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2005 at 07:39
Ok, what about traditional irish music? Should they sing that in english just to please people who don't understand and can't just accept it for it's beauty?

I can't bloody understand it. They could be singing about drowning babies and it still sounds amazing.

You know, some people might prefer singing in their natural language?
http://www.myspace.com/chrisblackwell

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Points: 5964 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2005 at 07:43
Originally posted by Poxx Poxx wrote:

Originally posted by Trouserpress Trouserpress wrote:

Originally posted by Poxx Poxx wrote:

I would prefer for them all to shut up completely, but since that's not going to happen, I would rather they sung in English, allowing me to understand their bullsh*t, so I can once more dismiss the inane lyrics as bullsh*t.

Seriously, are the lyrics really that special and counter-universal that only your fellow countrymen will get the idea? If you just don't know English - haven't learned in school, the chances are that your country just flat out suck, and you do too.

I know you think it's all high and holy, not to mention damn friggin intellectual when some fool sings in Italian. But in fact, he's just a major goofhead who never went to school.



Posts like this really depress me.

I have this thing, where I use improper language to cover the blatant truth, offending inferior minds in the process, for the sole purpose of amusement. Don't be one of them.



It's not the swearing that upsets me - I swear all the time (had some posts edited because of it!). What upsets me is your attitude.
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Points: 10616 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2005 at 07:44

Me, I'm some sort of purist snob; I always like to hear the records in the original language. Like with PFM and Le Orme, and I don't have to understand them. My Latin is well enough to understand some of it, enough of it. thank you very much  Sorry, just feeling superior to the masses, horrible isn't it  ?

It's fun, though, to hear Peter Gabriel sing Games without frontiers etc. in German ( he did his 3rd en 4th studioalbum in German too). Sorry, that shouldn't be funny, but it just sounds funny, the way he did that  .
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Points: 231 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2005 at 07:46
Of course some prefer that, but the point is: Is the message in the lyrics really that fantastic and unique that only a very restricted amount of people should be able to understand it? I'd like to think of music as a general thing everyone can enjoy, interculturally, interlingually; universally.

Edited by Poxx
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Points: 5964 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2005 at 07:49
Originally posted by Poxx Poxx wrote:

Of course some prefer that, but the point is: Is the message in the lyrics really that fantastic and unique that only a very restricted amount of people should be able to understand it? I'd like to think of music as a general thing everyone can enjoy, interculturally, interlingually; universally.


Then invent a language the whole world speaks. If every band sang in English you'd still be excluding the majority of the world.
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firth_of_Fifth View Drop Down
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Points: 192 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2005 at 08:03
Originally posted by Poxx Poxx wrote:

Of course some prefer that, but the point is: Is the message in the lyrics really that fantastic and unique that only a very restricted amount of people should be able to understand it? I'd like to think of music as a general thing everyone can enjoy, interculturally, interlingually; universally.


MUSIC is a thing we can all enjoy. Just because an artist happens to sing in a different languge doesn't detract from the music. Besides, like what Man Overboard says...No-one really has anything intresting to sing anymore...haha


Ok,so it says you're from Denmark. I'd hate to be in a local band playing with you in the audience...Can't you just accept that people might like to prefer singing in their native tongue?

What you are saying is hilariously absurd.
http://www.myspace.com/chrisblackwell

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Points: 231 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2005 at 08:18

Well, I'm not calling the metrosexual lead singer of Mars Volta telling him to quit the pseudo spanish.

But when you make a song in italian, you are basically saying that people who doesn't speak italian doesn't deserve your music.
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Points: 5964 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2005 at 08:30
Originally posted by Poxx Poxx wrote:

But when you make a song in italian, you are basically saying that people who doesn't speak italian doesn't deserve your music.



BOLLOCKS.
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firth_of_Fifth View Drop Down
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Points: 192 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2005 at 08:48
This is like having a debate with a Creationist. No point even trying. Let him believe what he wants. It is completely laughable.
http://www.myspace.com/chrisblackwell

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Points: 490 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2005 at 11:39
[QUOTE=Poxx]

Well, I'm not calling the metrosexual lead singer
of Mars Volta telling him to quit the pseudo spanish.


But when you make a song in italian, you are basically saying that
people who doesn't speak italian doesn't deserve your music.

[/
QUOTE]
1) I thought the debate was about lyrics and not music, if you don't
understand MUSIC when the LYRICS are in another language that's
your problem, mate, not the music's...
2) if you don't find an English translation of Italian lyrics, why don't
you learm Italian? Mastering other foreign languages than English is
always useful in life, you never know where you might end up one
day! My little German helped me a lot in Eatsern Europe some years
ago...
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Points: 2771 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2005 at 11:54
Originally posted by paulindigo paulindigo wrote:


2) if you don't find an English translation of Italian lyrics, why don't
you learm Italian? Mastering other foreign languages than English is
always useful in life, you never know where you might end up one
day! My little German helped me a lot in Eatsern Europe some years
ago...


Brings me back to my original question ... is there a site where I can get the lyrics in the original Italian? Then I can use a translator programme and maybe pick up a little along the way ... as I listen to this songs ... do you know how hard it is trying to sing along to Leonardo Sasso when you don't know what words he's saying?
"Death to Utopia! Death to faith! Death to love! Death to hope?" thunders the 20th century. "Surrender, you pathetic dreamer.”

"No" replies the unhumbled optimist "You are only the present."
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Points: 4097 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2005 at 11:54
Originally posted by Poxx Poxx wrote:

What are you talking about, nitwit? The whole point of why you should sing in English(and make lyrics in english in the first place) is that you can't convert lyrics into english, without losing meaning and/or song structure.

What are you talking about? You say it's impossible to convert lyrics into English without losing meaning, but if someone's native language isn't English, he has to convert his ideas into English, losing just as much, if not more, meaning. I honestly thought you were trolling at first...

Originally posted by Poxx Poxx wrote:

But when you make a song in italian, you are basically saying that people who doesn't speak italian doesn't deserve your music.

Doesn't that mean when one makes a song in English, one's saying that people who don't speak English don't deserve it?

You might want to look at http://www.krysstal.com/spoken.html

I have no idea where the sources are but it tied in with what my ideas were...



Edited by goose
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Points: 490 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2005 at 12:03
Originally posted by Trotsky Trotsky wrote:


Originally posted by paulindigo paulindigo wrote:

2) if you don't find an English translation of
Italian lyrics, why don't
you learm Italian? Mastering other foreign languages than English is
always useful in life, you never know where you might end up one
day! My little German helped me a lot in Eatsern Europe some years
ago...


Brings me back to my original question ... is there a site where I can
get the lyrics in the original Italian? Then I can use a translator
programme and maybe pick up a little along the way ... as I listen to
this songs ... do you know how hard it is trying to sing along to
Leonardo Sasso when you don't know what words he's saying?


I'm afraid there's no single site for original lyrics, you'll have to
google the whole 'net... this site has some translations
http://www.arlequins.it/translations/translations.asp
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Points: 231 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2005 at 12:47
Originally posted by goose goose wrote:

What are you talking about? You say it's impossible to convert lyrics into English without losing meaning, but if someone's native language isn't English, he has to convert his ideas into English, losing just as much, if not more, meaning. I honestly thought you were trolling at first...

Ideas aren't dependant on the language. Ideas are not words.

Quote

Doesn't that mean when one makes a song in English, one's saying that people who don't speak English don't deserve it?

You might want to look at http://www.krysstal.com/spoken.html

I have no idea where the sources are but it tied in with what my ideas were...

Yeah, no sh*t. It just so happens that English is something that most people will be able to understand. It is the international language.

"But, Poxx, lol more people people speaks mandarin. lol". More people has mandarin as native langauge, than English, yes, but there are more people who understands English..

You nitwits should get a grip, it seems like you are offended by my foul language, but respond to it with inane babble that doesn't make any sense.
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paulindigo View Drop Down
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Points: 490 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2005 at 13:23

[/QUOTE]


Ideas aren't dependant on the language. Ideas are not words.



mhh... that may be so in a Platonic world of ideas, but I believe
things are slightly different in our sublunary world. Of course when I
say dog in English and cane in Italian I am referring to the same
animal species, but the two words have different etymologies, i.e.
they have different stories and, most of all, they rhyme with different
words and have different sounds. So if I want to translate something
from one language to another I'll be able to keep the overall
meaning of the text, but something will inevitably be lost. In the
case of poems or song lyrics, this means that I'll probably have to
get rid of some or all of the rhymes, I'll change the rhythm... which
are very important elements in the creation of the meaning of a text.
and what about wordplays? Ever tried to translate Dancing with the
moonlight knight into Danish? of course you can, but you will also
have to produce a page or two of footnotes to the text... there's a
world behind words, how do you convey it from one language to
another? I think this is one of the big problems with literary
translation in particular and all types of translation in general, but a
welcome problem In my opinion, because it deals with complexity
and variety (the reasons why we like prog, uh?)
hope all this blabber wasn't too high-brow..
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Points: 7374 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2005 at 13:24

I like bands that sing in their native tongue (). In fact I encourage it. It sounds so...different (duh) and it's cool.

Ok, bad rationale.

But some languages are so beautiful.
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Points: 490 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 15 2005 at 13:28
It sounds so...different (duh) and it's cool.


Ok, bad rationale.


But some languages are so beautiful.

[/QUOTE]
YES! diversity, variety, complexity are necessary to music as well as
to human existence
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