Trouserpress wrote: I've read many a post on this forum writing off the likes of Banco Del Mutuo Soccorso as unlistenable because they sing in their native tongue. So my question is - are they a problem for YOU, and if so, why? How do they impair your enjoyment? Or do you, like me, rather appreciate foreign vocals which transform the voice into another instrument (something I love anyway). By the way, any Yes fans who say they hate foreign lyrics deserve to be laughed at derisively.

For me too; I'm italian and quite the whole prog sounds me like "another instrument"

Being spanish, most of the music I listen to is sung in another language (Spain is mostly a pop country, and I like few of the Spanish prog groups). And that's an advantage for several reasons!:

- I can listen, if I want to, to the vocals as another instrument, as it has been stated in earlier posts. Even though I speak english I can easily do so. An exception would be sometimes italian, wich is very similar to spanish.

- Then, if the lyrics are either not the kind I like or objetively sh*tty, I still can appreciate the record.

- I can love a song at first for the music, and then, several days/months/years after I can rediscover the song reading and translating the lyrics and rejoice in how fabulous it is (a recent example: The Chequered Flag, by Jethro Tull.

I listen to a bit of dark folky stuff - Tenhi, later Empyrium (why can't I remember any more? ) - that tends to be in the native language and I should think sounds a lot better than it would in English. Then there's Angizia who do weird arty operatic metal in German which works really well. On the whole I'd prefer if a band sings in its native language, since it's bound to bring more variation to the music as compared to English-speaking (as a first language) groups. Oh, except for death metal - I couldn't say what language that's in anyway

I would prefer for them all to shut up completely, but since that's not going to happen, I would rather they sung in English, allowing me to understand their bullsh*t, so I can once more dismiss the inane lyrics as bullsh*t.

Seriously, are the lyrics really that special and counter-universal that only your fellow countrymen will get the idea? If you just don't know English - haven't learned in school, the chances are that your country just flat out suck, and you do too.

I know you think it's all high and holy, not to mention damn friggin intellectual when some fool sings in Italian. But in fact, he's just a major goofhead who never went to school.

WiguJimbo wrote: I usually prefer bands that sing in their native language instead of trying to sing in English and sounding ridiculous.. But it's the music that matters to me!

I agree. English crunched up by non-native English speakers/singers, sounds unsophisticated and too often jarring, and found amongst usually very sophisticated instrumental playing and arrangements. There are only a few European bands that sing English convincingly, Anekdoten, Ibis (on Sun Supreme), and Wigwam employed a Brit vocalist. Too often prog lyrics in whatever language are abstract, metaphysical and often twaddle, so does it matter that jibberish is sung in English (Accrington branch), Gaelic or Russian, or the 357th dialect of Urdu?

firth_of_Fifth wrote: Poxx wrote: I would prefer for them all to shut up completely, but since that's not going to happen, I would rather they sung in English, allowing me to understand their bullsh*t, so I can once more dismiss the inane lyrics as bullsh*t. Seriously, are the lyrics really that special and counter-universal that only your fellow countrymen will get the idea? If you just don't know English - haven't learned in school, the chances are that your country just flat out suck, and you do too. I know you think it's all high and holy, not to mention damn friggin intellectual when some fool sings in Italian. But in fact, he's just a major goofhead who never went to school. Why does everyone have to sing in english? You're obviously not that smart if you've never heard of a translator. ABBA are the best foreign prog band for singing in english I always enjoy a good bit of Latin...Gaudete, Gaudete. Christus est natus. ex maria virgine Gaudete! (if memory serves me correctly)

What are you talking about, nitwit? The whole point of why you should sing in English(and make lyrics in english in the first place) is that you can't convert lyrics into english, without losing meaning and/or song structure.

Bands don't "have to" sing in English, but the thing is if they don't, it's quite often because they are unable to. Singing in English, allows for the most people to hace a chance of understanding the lyrics, should they give a damn.

Trouserpress wrote: Poxx wrote: I would prefer for them all to shut up completely, but since that's not going to happen, I would rather they sung in English, allowing me to understand their bullsh*t, so I can once more dismiss the inane lyrics as bullsh*t. Seriously, are the lyrics really that special and counter-universal that only your fellow countrymen will get the idea? If you just don't know English - haven't learned in school, the chances are that your country just flat out suck, and you do too. I know you think it's all high and holy, not to mention damn friggin intellectual when some fool sings in Italian. But in fact, he's just a major goofhead who never went to school. Posts like this really depress me.

I have this thing, where I use improper language to cover the blatant truth, offending inferior minds in the process, for the sole purpose of amusement. Don't be one of them.

Me, I'm some sort of purist snob; I always like to hear the records in the original language. Like with PFM and Le Orme, and I don't have to understand them. My Latin is well enough to understand some of it, enough of it. thank you very much  Sorry, just feeling superior to the masses, horrible isn't it  ?

It's fun, though, to hear Peter Gabriel sing Games without frontiers etc. in German ( he did his 3rd en 4th studioalbum in German too). Sorry, that shouldn't be funny, but it just sounds funny, the way he did that  .

Well, I'm not calling the metrosexual lead singer of Mars Volta telling him to quit the pseudo spanish.

But when you make a song in italian, you are basically saying that people who doesn't speak italian doesn't deserve your music.

Well, I'm not calling the metrosexual lead singer
of Mars Volta telling him to quit the pseudo spanish.

But when you make a song in italian, you are basically saying that
people who doesn't speak italian doesn't deserve your music.

Poxx wrote: What are you talking about, nitwit? The whole point of why you should sing in English(and make lyrics in english in the first place) is that you can't convert lyrics into english, without losing meaning and/or song structure.

What are you talking about? You say it's impossible to convert lyrics into English without losing meaning, but if someone's native language isn't English, he has to convert his ideas into English, losing just as much, if not more, meaning. I honestly thought you were trolling at first...

Poxx wrote: But when you make a song in italian, you are basically saying that people who doesn't speak italian doesn't deserve your music.

Doesn't that mean when one makes a song in English, one's saying that people who don't speak English don't deserve it?

You might want to look at http://www.krysstal.com/spoken.html - http://www.krysstal.com/spoken.html

I have no idea where the sources are but it tied in with what my ideas were...

goose wrote: What are you talking about? You say it's impossible to convert lyrics into English without losing meaning, but if someone's native language isn't English, he has to convert his ideas into English, losing just as much, if not more, meaning. I honestly thought you were trolling at first...

Ideas aren't dependant on the language. Ideas are not words.

Doesn't that mean when one makes a song in English, one's saying that people who don't speak English don't deserve it? You might want to look at http://www.krysstal.com/spoken.html - http://www.krysstal.com/spoken.html I have no idea where the sources are but it tied in with what my ideas were...

Yeah, no sh*t. It just so happens that English is something that most people will be able to understand. It is the international language.

"But, Poxx, lol more people people speaks mandarin. lol". More people has mandarin as native langauge, than English, yes, but there are more people who understands English..

You nitwits should get a grip, it seems like you are offended by my foul language, but respond to it with inane babble that doesn't make any sense.

[/QUOTE]

Ideas aren't dependant on the language. Ideas are not words.

I like bands that sing in their native tongue (). In fact I encourage it. It sounds so...different (duh) and it's cool.

Ok, bad rationale.

But some languages are so beautiful.

Ok, bad rationale.

But some languages are so beautiful.

Sure it is personal taste. If you notice many
reviews and import record sales sites make mention
of the use of foreign language, sparse use of foreign
language and wordless vocals. This can be a
hinderance for some. I think it is easiest to digest
foreign language bands that are not vocally oriented.
I recognize the musical capabilities of many of these
bands but trying to introduce them to non prog music
fans or your average listener is difficult. After all most
english speaking music is very vocally oriented and
they are trained to follow the story. I think the great
bands of england and america have a story to tell
also that adds to the musical text. The biggest
movement of foreign language bands in progressive
rock is italy. The italians probably due to the time
period of their best output sang mostly in italian
which is a great romantic language, no doubt! But
they later saw the need to record in english for a
broader audience. Most all of the italian reedits with
english are inferior to the originals. Later 70's in
continental Europe many bands followed the
Kosmiche thread from germany focusing on the
music and away from the vocals. The europeans
saw the need to capture the international audience
as the language barrier was a part of their everyday
life. Dont think we should necessarily downplay the
need of americans or english to learn the many
foreign languages that are in europe. Its just not a
necessity for many people to know many languages
in some parts of the world because it will never be
used. I prefer the music that was made for the
international audience and applaud the great
wisdom used to devise such. Many great bands
such as Mezquita, Jose Cid, Bacamarte, the whole
italian scene, Atoll, Ange, Eskaton, Harmonium,
german progressive folk, etc should be listened to
for their great contributions. Very few are actually
enhanced by vocals(words as another instrument) to
my ears. Samla Mammas Manna, Atila and Il Volo
are a few that come to mind that benefitted the music
by their use of foreign vocals, wordless vocals and
sparse use of the native tongue to capture the
international audience.

IMO

Poxx wrote: Ideas aren't dependant on the language.

Do you have any higher qualifications in language to support that? Orwell for one certainly disagreed with you.

Poxx wrote: "But, Poxx, lol more people people speaks mandarin. lol". More people has mandarin as native langauge, than English, yes, but there are more people who understands English..

Can you cite anything for that?

PS If English is so wonderful, learn to spell "dependent" correctly, and how to form the verb "understand"...

I enjoy listening to music with vocals in other languages (both those languages I understand and those I don't). In fact, I wish bands - such as Floating State (Italy) and Apocalypse (Brazil) - that sing in English would revert to using their native language. Some languages sound so beautiful to me, especially when they are used on top of music that contains instruments, traits or nuances typical of that country.

By the way, Trotsky, I have a CD with the soundtrack of Silat Legenda. That's some really good Malay pop music! I heard a couple of tracks playing while I was browsing in a CD shop a few years back and liked it so much I asked the attendant what was playing - and bought the CD. Boleh!

Magma, Sigur Ros and Ruins all sing in their own made up languages. Kraftwerk's albums include lyrics in Fench, Spanish, Italian and Japanese as well as English and their native German.

PFM's English language albums lack a certain je ne sais quoi compared to the Italian originals, ditto the rather clumsy English lyrics that crop up on a lot of European rock music from the late 70s onwards.

When you consider that Wagner's librettos were all in German (!), Verdi used Italian (d'oh!), Lorca's songs were written in Spanish (unbelievable but true!) and Jacques Brel and Serge Gainsbourg had the temerity to write in French, it's no wonder that nobody's ever heard of them.

Who?

I prefer the lyrics to be in a foreign language. English is a foreign language to me

But lyrics in Dutch i find to be uninteresting, since the words seem banal, and simple, where lyrics in English maintain some mysticism and are not always easily understood, more effort goes into understanding the words, and their meaning, it get's me more focussed on the music aswel.

Only a few Dutch artist have good lyrics IMO. Drs P, Jaap Fisher, Frank Boeijen