The fathers of Prog Metal

I've never heard any elements of prog in Black Sabbath , for me they are mostly the fathers of metal imagery and also of stoner rock music. So I choose Rush

chopper wrote: CPicard wrote: chopper wrote: CPicard wrote: Other: Thin Lizzy. Eh? THAT'S THE JOKE. Really? It's not very funny.

And what if I said with a funny voice and a clown make-up?

Guldbamsen wrote: High Tide's Sea Shanties anyone? Pretty close methinks, but when we are talking about fathering a style of music, I believe it has to be a band that put out a series of albums, almost like a sonic blueprint of what was to come, and Black Sabbath did just that - and more.

Going by Dean's very logical interpretation of the term, I would go with Iron Maiden too.  They are clearly metal in the 80s and onwards sense of the genre - which Sabbath and Rush are not - and not yet all out prog metal either, but with many tracks that hint at it.   I guess some of you guys haven't talked to hardcore metalheads - the kind who listen to thrash metal and 'above' only - they'd consider DP or Rainbow or Heep as just hard rock.  It's not about which side is 'right' on this one; it's just that metal changed quite fundamentally in the 80s. 

not Sabbath, but Ozzy with the help of Randy Rhoads.   

^ Any evidence of that ... "fact"?

Edited by Dayvenkirq - May 01 2013 at 00:12

It is a small world after all.

Dean wrote: ProgMetaller2112 wrote: ^^^ Where did Maiden and Metallica get its prog influence, most definitely not Sabbath. Rush has an influence on both Maiden and Metallica . That's just plain fact! And which Rush tracks appear on Garage Inc.?

None, but they've played Working Man live on many occasions and have publicly cited them as a strong influence and those instrumentals wouldn't exist without La Villa Strangiato

Dayvenkirq wrote: ^ Any evidence of that ... "fact"?

Do your research, please!! Metal Virgin


Edited by ProgMetaller2112 - May 01 2013 at 01:43

ProgMetaller2112 wrote: None, but they've played Working Man live on many occasions and have publicly cited them as a strong influence and those instrumentals wouldn't exist without La Villa Strangiato Dayvenkirq wrote: ^ Any evidence of that ... "fact"? Do your research, please!! Metal Virgin

All of which doesn't establish that they derived their prog elements ONLY from Rush.  You are ignoring Iron Maiden's own influence on Metallica.  Iron Maiden already had instrumentals and extended sections on their debut, so it is reasonable to deduce that they could have influenced the more prog aspects of Metallica's style.   And Iron Maiden certainly didn't derive their prog side entirely from Rush.  Steve Harris has cited the influence of Genesis and Jethro Tull and Bruce Dickinson has said he was fond of VDGG.   These bands are at least as progressive, if not more so, than Rush. 

Try this:  Sabbath in the Ozzy years is heavy metal, but it's not Metal.  There's a huge difference between the Sabbath albums and Dehumanizer, which is in turn heavier than Heaven and Hell or the Rainbow albums, etc.   That is, there was some such thing as heavy metal in the 70s but that had about as much to do with prog metal as Elvis Priesley had to with Van Halen.  Black Sabbath's concerts often featured long blues-based jams, which is not nearly typical of prog metal at all.  Jazz-rock like Al Di Meola or Dixie Dregs had more to do with prog metal than Sabbath.    

Speaking of Van Halen, Metal tends to deviate from blues while hard rock remains wedded to it, and is arguably just a very heavy form of blues.   You 'subtract' all the heaviness from Van Halen's songs like Panama or Girl Gone Bad and what remains is blues.  You can't say that about, say, Hallowed Be Thy Name, it's a different 'beast'.