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Trick of the lamb 
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 Topic: John Mayhew on Trespass
Posted: February 18 2012 at 06:59 |
Just wondering... Am I the only guy here who thinks that Mayhew's drumming on Trespass is actually on par with the other members? Basically every second review of Trespass says that his drumming ruined the album. I think that, considering the structure and arrangements of the songs themselves, he did a fine job. What do you think?
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Slartibartfast
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Posted: February 18 2012 at 07:09 |
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It's hard being the shadow of Phil Collins. His drumming didn't ruin the album for me.
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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ExittheLemming
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Posted: February 18 2012 at 07:11 |
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I think he's a very fine drummer but unfortunately, like most of the early Genesis albums, the detail of each members individual contribution is hidden beneath the fog of some pretty dire production.
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Trick of the lamb
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Posted: February 18 2012 at 07:16 |
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I agree with you. Collins is far better drummer then him, but I still think there is some exaggerated criticism over his drumming.
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ExittheLemming
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Posted: February 18 2012 at 07:19 |
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Yep, Collins is probably a superior technician but the italicised does not a moving performance make (on its own)
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rupert
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Posted: February 18 2012 at 07:20 |
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I like the album and I like the drumming.
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Guldbamsen
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Posted: February 18 2012 at 07:28 |
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I know people who count it as the best Genesis release. Our dear pomodoro pal Jim from the Italian quarters wrote a fantastic 5 star review of it not too long ago.
It's been a while since I heard it last, but speaking as a drummer I don't recollect anything from it that would diminish the rest of the album though. Maybe I should give Genesis a spin one of these days...
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TODDLER
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Posted: February 18 2012 at 07:41 |
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I think John Mayhew may have suffered the wrath of Tony Banks.....when actually he didn't do any worse than B.J. Wilson or any other drummer who is asked to play "Visions of Angels". I mean what on earth are you suppose to do with a song like that? You don't want to play during the verse....but when you do ...what are you suppose to play? Play a straight beat or a straight beat with fills?...which was what Mayhew did. There was nothing wrong with the way Mayhew played "The Knife" unless he was the type of drummer who had technique but lacked in the area of power.....which Collins had force that only he controlled. He had power on "Return of the Giant Hogweed" Did you ever work with a drummer who could play a buzz roll, a round house, a jazz beat etc....but had no ability to give a "punch" to their playing or the band they were playing with? Maybe that was his deal or perhaps Banks was just being himself as usual. Or maybe when Rutherford attempted to accent bass notes ...he may have expected a tightness or a "lock it in the pocket" sound within the songs of Trespass and maybe Mayhew was not giving him that option.
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Trick of the lamb
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Posted: February 18 2012 at 07:50 |
 Guldbamsen wrote:
I know people who count it as the best Genesis release. Our dear pomodoro pal Jim from the Italian quarters wrote a fantastic 5 star review of it not too long ago.
It's been a while since I heard it last, but speaking as a drummer I don't recollect anything from it that would diminish the rest of the album though. Maybe I should give Genesis a spin one of these days... |
A great review! He explained it perfectly. Just what I was trying to point out here.
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Snow Dog
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Posted: February 18 2012 at 07:51 |
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His drumming doesn't ruin the album
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Blacksword
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Posted: February 18 2012 at 07:59 |
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The strength of Trespass is the songs. It's a great album, made by a very young band, still forging their identity. No member played badly, but equally no member will win any award for blistering, technically perfect playing either.
Collins is obviously a better drummer, that's barely worth debating, but in no way does John Mayhews drumming ruin that album.
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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Trick of the lamb
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Posted: February 18 2012 at 08:05 |
Well, I'm glad we all share the same opinion. 
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Finnforest
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Posted: February 18 2012 at 08:05 |
Trick of the lamb wrote:
Guldbamsen wrote:
I know people who count it as the best Genesis release. Our dear pomodoro pal Jim from the Italian quarters wrote a fantastic 5 star review of it not too long ago.
It's been a while since I heard it last, but speaking as a drummer I don't recollect anything from it that would diminish the rest of the album though. Maybe I should give Genesis a spin one of these days... |
A great review! He explained it perfectly. Just what I was trying to point out here. |
Thank you guys, very generous words indeed. Nice to see others enjoy his playing too, when I read reviews about his drumming wrecking the album, it amazes me.
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akamaisondufromage
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Posted: February 18 2012 at 08:09 |
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I have never noticed so it has certainly not ruined the album for me.
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Help me I'm falling!
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lazland
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Posted: February 18 2012 at 08:26 |
To be fair to the others, he did not go because "his drumming ruined the album".
When Ant Phillips left, and they wanted to recruit a new guitarist, all felt that they needed a better drummer to take the band forward, given that all were committed to making Genesis work on a full time basis.
They most certainly did get a better drummer.
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Trick of the lamb
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Posted: February 18 2012 at 08:30 |
lazland wrote:
To be fair to the others, he did not go because "his drumming ruined the album".
When Ant Phillips left, and they wanted to recruit a new guitarist, all felt that they needed a better drummer to take the band forward, given that all were committed to making Genesis work on a full time basis.
They most certainly did get a better drummer. |
I understand that perfectly. I'm just saying that for me, there's nothing wrong in his playing on Trespass, and a lot of people have been implying the opposite.
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Sean Trane
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Posted: February 18 2012 at 12:07 |
Blacksword wrote:
The strength of Trespass is the songs. It's a great album, made by a very young band, still forging their identity. No member played badly, but equally no member will win any award for blistering, technically perfect playing either.
Collins is obviously a better drummer, that's barely worth debating, but in no way does John Mayhews drumming ruin that album. |
exactly... Too many people compare it with future gen albums... Mayhew's drumming is apt... doesn't magnify the music as Collins' would in later albums... If you don't notice the drumming in a song, it's definitely not ruining it.... if you do notice it, then there is a chance that it's either excellent .... or awful.... and it's neither in Trespass
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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Eetu Pellonpaa
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Posted: February 18 2012 at 13:57 |
Remember I liked this album most from the complete quality & atmosphere perspectives, though few next records have great moments too. Peeked what I wrote myself: " This is my personal favorite GENESIS album, and also their only LP which
I still listen quite frequently. It doesn't even have Phil Collins on
drums yet, which may make it musically little different than their later
albums, where his influence began (sadly) to grow." Gotta go now............ 
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Fox On The Rocks
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Posted: February 18 2012 at 14:18 |
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Trespass is very much different from other Genesis albums. It has a certain, unique atmosphere and the feeling of a young band trying to find themselves. I think John Mayhew is an excellent drummer, obviously not in the same vein as Phil, but he is still a great drummer. Phil brought a much more dynamic and creative approach to drumming and the band.
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moshkito
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Posted: February 19 2012 at 12:23 |
Trick of the lamb wrote:
I agree with you. Collins is far better drummer then him, but I still think there is some exaggerated criticism over his drumming. |
I'm thinking we should say ... "was".
I much prefer the drumming he did in almost all his side things and work. The stuff he did with Eno is very good, the stuff on Brand X is very nice ... and the early Genesis stuff is ... beyond discussion, up to the live album and "Los Endos" ... I kinda think that Genesis lost a magnificent drummer, that was helping the music a lot, when he started singing full time ... I would think that it is not easy and probably impossible to do all that singing and drumming at the same time.
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John Mayhew on Trespass
