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Topic ClosedVangelis - Prog?
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Poll Question: Where does this artist fit in the Prog spectrum?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
3 [6.82%]
26 [59.09%]
9 [20.45%]
0 [0.00%]
0 [0.00%]
6 [13.64%]
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Chris S View Drop Down
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Points: 7028 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2011 at 08:00
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Points: 22989 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2011 at 09:29
Dave, chill out please. 
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Points: 2585 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2011 at 13:03
Vangelis has always been Electronic....from the beguining, using his selfmade organ and a lot of effects......Just listen to : Creation du monde from l'apocalypse des animaux,a long track with only the Hammond, a clavinet and a few cymbals, IMHO it's realy Prog, Symphonic, and electronic....Vangelis did so many different things, i understand it's a problem to label him...Whatever he's realy prog, no doubt
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Points: 19557 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2011 at 13:03
I don't believe M@X ever vetoed Vangelis, that's not his style, he always respected our opinion as team members and encouraged our work.

Now VANGELIS IS NOT ELECTRONIC EXCLUSIVELY, there I agree with Phillipe:

He has Symphonic,  Electronic, Eclectic, Jazzy,  Pomp rock, New Age releases. And even a couple that sound very close to mainstream.

Yesterday I thought in Eclectic, but re-listening the albums, I believe Crossover is more suitable due to the mainstream and New Age components (New Age is not Prog just in case).

But that's for the teams to decide, I can only suggest respectfully.

Iván.

BTW: Dave, a bit of respect for M@X, if it wasn't for him and Ronnie, we wouldn't be enjoying this site.


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - November 09 2011 at 15:37
            
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Points: 13719 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2011 at 13:08
It's nice for me to agree wholeheartedly with Ivan, on all counts - I would say Crossover for Vangelis without hesitation, and also, don't diss the men!
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2011 at 13:17
(people may want to make a note of this date).
 
I agree with Steve agreeing with Ivan.
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Points: 11939 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2011 at 13:25
Crossover looks more correct when I check who else is in there, but Eclectic sounds more correct. It doesn't really matter to me. He just deserves to be acknowledged as the progressive artist he is.
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Points: 2585 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2011 at 13:26
Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

Crossover looks more correct when I check who else is in there, but Eclectic sounds more correct. It doesn't really matter to me. He just deserves to be acknowledged as the progressive artist he is.
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Points: 492 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2011 at 13:28
I appreciate M@X fully and all that he's done here for us people who love Prog music.
 
I do get a little unhappy when the views of the many here seem to me to be discarded and relating to music I am very passionate. There should really be no questions relating to Vangelis and he should have been represented here a long time ago but obviously that hasn't been the thinking of some. I have always been anti a minority dictating to a majority when it is clear that the majority isn't wrong.
I severely question where Jarre has been placed here and why that is just as my eyebrows raise higher each time I see an addition that, to me, doesn't make sense, where I pleaded the case of Stratovarius even to be placed under prog related if possible so that prog lovers can be exposed to their music through this Site which I admittedly do love and spend a lot of time with.
Everyones views are different and that is what makes the world an interesting place but the sky is generally blue and the night is dark - some things are pretty much obvious irrelevantly of views.
What M@X has done is put an absolutely brilliant tool together here and a place where us real music lovers can enjoy and for that I am very thankful as we all should be. I hope that that doesn't somehow become jaded by autocracy and change.
 
To change the subject I am really looking forward to the new Arena album Smile. Maybe that will lighten things up a bit.
 
 
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2011 at 13:35
Originally posted by DavetheSlave DavetheSlave wrote:

I appreciate M@X fully and all that he's done here for us people who love Prog music.
 
I do get a little unhappy when the views of the many here seem to me to be discarded and relating to music I am very passionate. There should really be no questions relating to Vangelis and he should have been represented here a long time ago but obviously that hasn't been the thinking of some. I have always been anti a minority dictating to a majority when it is clear that the majority isn't wrong.
I severely question where Jarre has been placed here and why that is just as my eyebrows raise higher each time I see an addition that, to me, doesn't make sense, where I pleaded the case of Stratovarius even to be placed under prog related if possible so that prog lovers can be exposed to their music through this Site which I admittedly do love and spend a lot of time with.
Everyones views are different and that is what makes the world an interesting place but the sky is generally blue and the night is dark - some things are pretty much obvious irrelevantly of views.
What M@X has done is put an absolutely brilliant tool together here and a place where us real music lovers can enjoy and for that I am very thankful as we all should be. I hope that that doesn't somehow become jaded by autocracy and change.
 
To change the subject I am really looking forward to the new Arena album Smile. Maybe that will lighten things up a bit.
 
 
Dave, Vangelis is "represented" here and has been here for over six years - whether Prog Related is seen as some second-rate category is irrelevant - anyone who wants to review a Vangelis album can do so - and that's pretty much all this site is here for - to allow people to review and rate albums and if they think that album is Progressive or Symphonic or Jazz-Rock/Raga they can say so in their review.
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Points: 36285 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2011 at 13:35
I thought of Crossover first because of his more mainstream works, but at the same time, for his most applicable to PA period of music and works (say in the 70s), I think Eclectic describes his musical approach better.  Crossover is commonly very eclectic itself.  Genesis could be in Crossover if one considers the greater discography.  I'm fine with either Crossover or Eclectic, though, as I think I have said.  For the team that evaluates, I do hope they focus most on his 70s albums, and not so much on his later commericial soundtrack/ New Age material.  I have wondered if he is in Prog Related because the focus was on his really mainstream albums.
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Points: 32995 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2011 at 13:51
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

(people may want to make a note of this date).
 
I agree with Steve agreeing with Ivan.

This is truly momentous.Shocked
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Points: 13719 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2011 at 13:57
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

(people may want to make a note of this date).
 
I agree with Steve agreeing with Ivan.

This is truly momentous.Shocked

And there was me only going to have two cans of SA tonight.......

More booze, andBeer
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2011 at 14:02
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

(people may want to make a note of this date).
 
I agree with Steve agreeing with Ivan.

This is truly momentous.Shocked
You'd think. Wink
 
The problem with this is historical (hysterical) and one of the reasons why I question any band move into Prog Related from a Tru-Prog subgenre: Vangelis was originally added to Prog Electronic in 2005 - two years later (erm, in 2007) this was deemed to be a mistake and he was kicked-out by the Prog Electronic team and he landed in Prog Related for want of a more fitting home. At that time Eclectic and Crossover did not exist and the old Art Rock was clearly not the right place - it really was a case of "if not Prog Electronic then where else could he go?" ... Now we sit beating our brows because everyone sees him in PR and assumes that he should be in Prog Electronic (except his music isn't Electronic Prog - he just happens to use a keyboard as his main instrument, just like Jarre - all keyboard Prog isn't necessarily prog Electronic just as all Prog with keys isn't necessarily Symphonic). I support Xover because there is precident (Stephen Caudel, Chris Neal etc).
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Points: 32995 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2011 at 14:16
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

(people may want to make a note of this date).
 
I agree with Steve agreeing with Ivan.

This is truly momentous.Shocked
You'd think. Wink
 
The problem with this is historical (hysterical) and one of the reasons why I question any band move into Prog Related from a Tru-Prog subgenre: Vangelis was originally added to Prog Electronic in 2005 - two years later (erm, in 2007) this was deemed to be a mistake and he was kicked-out by the Prog Electronic team and he landed in Prog Related for want of a more fitting home. At that time Eclectic and Crossover did not exist and the old Art Rock was clearly not the right place - it really was a case of "if not Prog Electronic then where else could he go?" ... Now we sit beating our brows because everyone sees him in PR and assumes that he should be in Prog Electronic (except his music isn't Electronic Prog - he just happens to use a keyboard as his main instrument, just like Jarre - all keyboard Prog isn't necessarily prog Electronic just as all Prog with keys isn't necessarily Symphonic). I support Xover because there is precident (Stephen Caudel, Chris Neal etc).

When I hear Vangelis I hear Electronic Prog. Ok..I haven't heard all his albums and maybe if I don't know why maybe I don't understand what Electronic Prog is. Same with Jarre. I hear electronic. 
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2011 at 14:31
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

When I hear Vangelis I hear Electronic Prog. Ok..I haven't heard all his albums and maybe if I don't know why maybe I don't understand what Electronic Prog is. Same with Jarre. I hear electronic. 
I suspect this is a common understanding/thought/etc. and one you'd have to take up with Philippe (or perthaps Vic who spent sometime on the PE team). Progressive Electronic is a subset of Electronic Music, perhaps Jarre and Vangelis are not in this particular subset.
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Points: 32995 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2011 at 14:37
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

When I hear Vangelis I hear Electronic Prog. Ok..I haven't heard all his albums and maybe if I don't know why maybe I don't understand what Electronic Prog is. Same with Jarre. I hear electronic. 
I suspect this is a common understanding/thought/etc. and one you'd have to take up with Philippe (or perthaps Vic who spent sometime on the PE team). Progressive Electronic is a subset of Electronic Music, perhaps Jarre and Vangelis are not in this particular subset.

I just read that mangled sentence I made . I hope you understood what I was attempting to say.


Edited by Snow Dog - November 09 2011 at 14:38
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Points: 36285 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2011 at 14:44
But be careful, I hear they're dragons.











It's funny to think that my two favourite albums of his, Hypothesis and the Dragon were from jam sessions of his with a group of musicians that he hadn't wanted released.
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Points: 22989 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2011 at 15:01
Thanks Greg for posting all those videos, I've learned because of them many things about Vangelis that I didn't know.
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Points: 19557 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 09 2011 at 15:44
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

(people may want to make a note of this date).
 
I agree with Steve agreeing with Ivan.

This is truly momentous.Shocked
You'd think. Wink
 
The problem with this is historical (hysterical) and one of the reasons why I question any band move into Prog Related from a Tru-Prog subgenre: Vangelis was originally added to Prog Electronic in 2005 - two years later (erm, in 2007) this was deemed to be a mistake and he was kicked-out by the Prog Electronic team and he landed in Prog Related for want of a more fitting home. At that time Eclectic and Crossover did not exist and the old Art Rock was clearly not the right place - it really was a case of "if not Prog Electronic then where else could he go?" ... Now we sit beating our brows because everyone sees him in PR and assumes that he should be in Prog Electronic (except his music isn't Electronic Prog - he just happens to use a keyboard as his main instrument, just like Jarre - all keyboard Prog isn't necessarily prog Electronic just as all Prog with keys isn't necessarily Symphonic). I support Xover because there is precident (Stephen Caudel, Chris Neal etc).

I remember that precise day, Philippe kicked out Vangelis and rejected Jarre the same day.

I even thought in adding Vangelis due to Heaven & Hell, but it was too forced and there was no place for him in any genre (As Dean said with no Eclectic or Xover, it was hard to place him)..

And I agree with Philippe in both cases, I said everything about Vangelis, but in the case of Jarre I prefer Prog Related, because his work is a combination of Pomp Rock and Ambient, he's much better in arrangements than in composition.

Iván
            
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