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Manuel 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 09 2007
Location: United States
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Points: 13481
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 Posted: October 31 2011 at 21:20 |
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It wil be hard for a new album, from a new artist, to get to the top, since it needs to stand the test of time, as these gems from the past have done. Also, to become as influential as the top albums is not an easy task.
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Triceratopsoil
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 03 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 18016
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Posted: October 31 2011 at 23:31 |
 Padraic wrote:
manofmystery wrote:
I would be all for the Genesis albums being bumped out of the top 10, though. Have a feeling I'm in the super-minority on that one  . |
There's more of us than you might think. 
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timothy leary
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 29 2005
Location: Lilliwaup, Wa.
Status: Offline
Points: 5319
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Posted: November 01 2011 at 10:53 |
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It was never my intention this thread turn in to a bashing of the bands now in the top ten but more about thoughts on any newer albums which have a chance to break into the top ten. Neal Morse and Steven Wilson seem the only likely candidates and perhaps Anglagard when their new album comes out.
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 18005
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Posted: November 01 2011 at 19:22 |
Triceratopsoil wrote:
Padraic wrote:
manofmystery wrote:
I would be all for the Genesis albums being bumped out of the top 10, though. Have a feeling I'm in the super-minority on that one . |
There's more of us than you might think.
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I'm all for accepting Genesis as an artist ... and not list the albums individually!
Because, otherwise, the whole history of the medium is not worth the discussion as almost all of the bands listed became pop bands in their own ways.
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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The Dark Elf
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 13203
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Posted: November 01 2011 at 19:53 |
moshkito wrote:
Because, otherwise, the whole history of the medium is not worth the discussion as almost all of the bands listed became pop bands in their own ways. |
Yes, like when King Crimson went disco.
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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thehallway
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 13 2010
Location: Dorset, England
Status: Offline
Points: 1433
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Posted: November 02 2011 at 14:37 |
moshkito wrote:
Triceratopsoil wrote:
Padraic wrote:
manofmystery wrote:
I would be all for the Genesis albums being bumped out of the top 10, though. Have a feeling I'm in the super-minority on that one . |
There's more of us than you might think.
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I'm all for accepting Genesis as an artist ... and not list the albums individually!
Because, otherwise, the whole history of the medium is not worth the discussion as almost all of the bands listed became pop bands in their own ways. |
Surely that's an argument for having individual albums on the site? Then they can get rid of the pop ones. If it's just "Genesis" then that could confuse some fans of the eighties material coming to the site.
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 18005
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Posted: November 02 2011 at 14:51 |
thehallway wrote:
Surely that's an argument for having individual albums on the site? Then they can get rid of the pop ones. If it's just "Genesis" then that could confuse some fans of the eighties material coming to the site. |
I disagree. I doubt that the folks that like the later Genesis have not heard, or are aware of Peter Gabriel and the massive history.
And I don't think that the later Genesis is that bad ... just not my thing, and I personally did not think that Phil Collins had the depth that Peter Gabriel did that added to the group itself. THAT is my preference, but it is the same group of people and they deserve the mention as "artists" and not some rock'n'roll band that was so stupid that they could only do a few hit songs that are quasi progressive ... which to me, lowers the ability of the band itself and the quality of their work ... on a technical level, their later stuff is also very good! Just too pop'sy for my tastes!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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manofmystery
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 26 2008
Location: PA, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 4335
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Posted: November 02 2011 at 20:19 |
thehallway wrote:
moshkito wrote:
Triceratopsoil wrote:
Padraic wrote:
manofmystery wrote:
I would be all for the Genesis albums being bumped out of the top 10, though. Have a feeling I'm in the super-minority on that one . |
There's more of us than you might think.
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I'm all for accepting Genesis as an artist ... and not list the albums individually!
Because, otherwise, the whole history of the medium is not worth the discussion as almost all of the bands listed became pop bands in their own ways.
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Surely that's an argument for having individual albums on the site? Then they can get rid of the pop ones. If it's just "Genesis" then that could confuse some fans of the eighties material coming to the site. |
I don't like either incarnation. Nursery Cryme is the only album, of theirs, that I'd include in the top 100.
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 Time always wins.
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SMSM
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 15 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 212
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Posted: November 06 2011 at 13:22 |
Maybe as some may be disillusioned upon reading about recordings supposed to be the greatest of all, but not living up to the hype.
For example. While not in the top 10, Gentle Giant's In a Glass House gained a lot of credibility by not originally being released in North America because it was supposively not commercial enough. Upon actually hearing it, while it contained a few very non commercial great songs, it also contained a couple of bad ones, where there other GG recordings far better in consistancy and containing equally great songs but no stinkers. Interview is like that.
Finally, I was amazed that Anglagard received 600 votes. From the scarcity of Anglagard recordings, how many of such votes were a result of listening to synpets or what was downloaded on Youtube
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group
Site Admin
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC
Status: Offline
Points: 36940
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Posted: November 06 2011 at 13:43 |
timothy leary wrote:
For as long as I have been coming to this site the top ten albums have been the same. Like the ten commandments, are they written in stone?? Is there any chance a new artist can break into the top ten and stay there? Who would it be? Is it really so progressive if nobody can come along and outdo the pioneers? |
Perhaps M@X will someday change the algorithm, at least temporarily, which will change the top albums (all genres/ all years/ all categories), or offer the user the ability to set a default algorithm for generating that homepage list (e.g. see list without weighted ratings and differences in changing the ranking due to number of ratings criteria -- though i imagine that might be too much of a drain on the server).
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DreamInSong
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 17 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 279
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Posted: November 06 2011 at 15:18 |
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Grace for Drowning, pretty high up there... could do it?
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Redug
Forum Groupie
Joined: November 06 2011
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Status: Offline
Points: 67
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Posted: November 06 2011 at 15:54 |
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I think people's tastes have become a lot more polarized since the top 10 were released, so it would be nearly impossible for something new to get that level of near-unanimous praise without a decade or two to sit on.
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freyacat
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 17 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 146
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Posted: November 09 2011 at 10:47 |
Religious faith need not be a detraction from the quality of one's music. If you look at the music of Yes, Genesis, Kansas, Queen, The Flower Kings and Moonsafari, all of these have religious and spiritual themes woven through their music. What is grating about Neal Morse is that his expression of religion is unimaginative. Like the zombies who inhabit christian radio stations, you get the sense that the lyrics are lifted wholesale from the Bible or from fundamentalist sermons, with no creativity involved. When a person starts adhering to rigid dogma, they lose the freedom to imagine God, the same freedom taken by many of the Bible's writers, but curiously off-limits to practitioners of conservative religion today. Jon Anderson, Peter Gabriel, and Roine Stolt have given us the gift of seeing living faith and spirituality as a part of the creative process. Neal Morse will never measure up, lyrically speaking, because he's a slave to a theological agenda.
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sad creature nailed upon the coloured door of time
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Catcher10
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: December 23 2009
Location: Emerald City
Status: Offline
Points: 17958
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Posted: November 09 2011 at 17:41 |
Epignosis wrote:
Horizons wrote:
Grace for Drowning could do it.
With popularity and the album being Swilson's Top 3 best works. |
Doubtful. Only three collaborators have reviewed it, and a large number of the five-star reviews pouring in are from folks just joining the site to give GfD full accolades (possibly a SW buzz patrol of some sort). Should a few collaborators express negative reviews of the album, the rating would drop significantly.
I have heard GfD once. It is a far cry better than Insurgentes, but I thought it was very uneven. However, it takes me a while to let music sink in, so my review (if I write one) will likely be a ways off.
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I agree with this review of GfD........... 
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: November 09 2011 at 18:06 |
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Yes, but you should let the baffroom air out for about 25-30 minutes before you go in.
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Horizons
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: January 20 2011
Location: Somewhere Else
Status: Offline
Points: 16952
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Posted: November 09 2011 at 18:32 |
I really do love GfD. It's grown on me.
And like The Incident - seeing it live elevated my feelings about the album.
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Crushed like a rose in the riverflow.
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darkshade
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: November 19 2005
Location: New Jersey
Status: Offline
Points: 10964
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Posted: November 09 2011 at 19:41 |
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Neal Morse just writes great music. I could care less about the lyrics. His albums generally have good ratings too.
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Rottenhat
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 14 2006
Location: Finland
Status: Offline
Points: 436
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Posted: November 18 2011 at 10:59 |
There's a big difference about the old 70's prog bands that rates high on the PA rankings and the newer bands. The older ones couldn't just pop in a CD or download a tune from the net for inspiration. What the had was beat pop and the blues and jazz and classical. They invented the whole genre, or at least they mixed the genres and out came something new. For my 2 cents, Genesis Trespass was truly groundbreaking.
There's probably a lot of posts saying the same thing that I said, but I am to lazy to go back...
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Language is a virus from outer space.
-William S. Burroughs
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silverpot
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: March 19 2008
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 841
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Posted: November 18 2011 at 14:01 |
Being a bookseller, I can't help comparing with literary works. As long as a book is able to stand the test of time, it will remain in circulation, and be judged favourably against new publications. There are quite a few masterpieces that will never be surpassed, because of the novelty they brought to it's time, or the impact such works had on later writers. Just to name one epic that I think everybody is familiar with; nobody will ever again write someting like The Lord of the Rings. So, it will stay on the "most revered" list for an unforeseeable amount of time. The top artists here did create something unique, they were groundbreaking and fantastic, and most of their work actually HAS stood the test of time. I also think it's a good thing for new generations to go back and take a good look at history, no matter what kind of art they're interested in. A knowledge of the past will bring a better understanding of the present. (hm, that sounded a bit prim, but you know what I mean  ).
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Gerinski
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 10 2010
Location: Barcelona Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 5154
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Posted: November 18 2011 at 14:02 |
I'm not the first one to say this, but the key difference is that by the time of rating on the internet, the 70's albums had already passed the test of time, if people have rated many of them so highly is because they were 100% sure that they were worth it.
Nowadays I see so many 5 star ratings on albums that are just out there for a few weeks or months. IMHO this is a bit irresponsible and it's a high risk of bias in the long term. It may well be that some modern albums get high in the rankings if they get enough quantity of ratings but still I will have doubts if those who rated them so high to make it happen will think the same after 30 years (and if they will not, I don't think they will bother to go back to their reviews from 30 years ago and down-grade them).
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