Prog’s Most Derivative Moments!

No Doubt borrowed the intro to Breakfast in America, on their biggest hit Don't Speak (+ most of the song sounds like BiA)

CCVP wrote: this further proves that progressive rock sucks. That's why I only listen to prog metal.

CCVP wrote: Triceratopsoil wrote: akajazzman wrote: Starhammer wrote: akajazzman wrote: Starhammer, I hope that new image/icon/avatar you're is only temporary.  That killer murdered a sweet little nine year old girl and five other people. I'll remove it now if you're offended. Thanks for the heads up. Thanks.  Not offended just that his face makes me so angry.   I realize he's mentally ill, but I still hope somone kills him. This statement is more offensive than Starhammer's previous avatar seconded.

Oh please, give me a break.

akajazzman wrote: Oh please, give me a break.

No, stop being so crude

Asphalt wrote: Allow me to "bump" this thread with a short intermission.  etc.

No doubt you were very proud of that post

Triceratopsoil wrote: No doubt you were very proud of that post

Yes, yes I was. It's all show-off-manship around here anyway. But more importantly, I was also hoping people would start giving more examples and more reasons for their opinions. Being a smart-ass is not incompatible with having a genuine interest in a discussion about derivative moments in prog music. But it seems that expecting good will was silly of me.

Let me be less pedantic and more to the point then:

What are the influences that people see in Kayo Dot? I'm not saying there aren't any, just that "derivative" implies a rather hefty amount of non-original material. I am of the opinion Kayo Dot is one of the rather original prog outfits nowadays. Surely, they have their moments that may sound like other artists, but I am not aware of them and would genuinely be interested in finding out what those artists are. Who knows, I might check them out and the world will be a better place.

How is Negura Bunget so very original? I love the band, but in terms of black metal tropes it does not seem a truly remarkable departure from Ulver's Bergtatt, Burzum's Filosofem or other 90s French atmospheric BM outfits.

What exactly is so unoriginal about UJD and Frogg Cafe? What are their (maybe-not-so-)obvious influences and how much they weigh? Any particular moments in their songs that spring associations to mind?

When you talk about modern prog bands, do you include bands like Arcturus, GY!BE, Sleepytime Gorilla Museum, The Mars Volta or Ved Buens Ende? They surely have discernible influences, but would you go so far as to call them derivative? And if so, to what extent would you say these acts are more derivative than old prog acts that drew their influences from blues, jazz and contemporary music?

Those are the kinds of questions that, if answered, would make this thread so much more interesting (and myself so much prouder of wandering on the PA threads).


Edited by Asphalt - January 16 2011 at 20:10

Asphalt wrote: Triceratopsoil wrote: No doubt you were very proud of that post Yes, yes I was. It's all show-off-manship around here anyway. But more importantly, I was also hoping people would start giving more examples and more reasons for their opinions. Being a smart-ass is not incompatible with having a genuine interest in a discussion about derivative moments in prog music. But it seems that expecting good will was silly of me. Let me be less pedantic and more to the point then: What are the influences that people see in Kayo Dot? I'm not saying there aren't any, just that "derivative" implies a rather hefty amount of non-original material. I am of the opinion Kayo Dot is one of the rather original prog outfits nowadays. Surely, they have their moments that may sound like other artists, but I am not aware of them and would genuinely be interested in finding out what those artists are. Who knows, I might check them out and the world will be a better place. How is Negura Bunget so very original? I love the band, but in terms of black metal tropes it does not seem a truly remarkable departure from Ulver's Bergtatt, Burzum's Filosofem or other 90s French atmospheric BM outfits. What exactly is so unoriginal about UJD and Frogg Cafe? What are their (maybe-not-so-)obvious influences and how much they weigh? Any particular moments in their songs that spring associations to mind? When you talk about modern prog bands, do you include bands like Arcturus, GY!BE, Sleepytime Gorilla Museum, The Mars Volta or Ved Buens Ende? They surely have discernible influences, but would you go so far as to call them derivative? And if so, to what extent would you say these acts are more derivative than old prog acts that drew their influences from blues, jazz and contemporary music? Those are the kinds of questions that, if answered, would make this thread so much more interesting (and myself so much prouder of wandering on the PA threads).

Ahh, if only, if only.  I would respond to some of this myself, if I really  cared.  I like all sorts of music, all of it no doubt the product of thousands of years of humans making music, therefore, mostly derivative.

But, you know, it wasn't that many years ago I would have spouted my opinions about what bands were derivative and what bands were not as if it was somehow true to everyone.

Yet, somehow I keep being drawn to these types of threads, possibly only to ensure that Walter has posted and all is right with the world...............

Asphalt wrote: Triceratopsoil wrote: No doubt you were very proud of that post Yes, yes I was. It's all show-off-manship around here anyway. But more importantly, I was also hoping people would start giving more examples and more reasons for their opinions. Being a smart-ass is not incompatible with having a genuine interest in a discussion about derivative moments in prog music. But it seems that expecting good will was silly of me. Let me be less pedantic and more to the point then: What are the influences that people see in Kayo Dot? I'm not saying there aren't any, just that "derivative" implies a rather hefty amount of non-original material. I am of the opinion Kayo Dot is one of the rather original prog outfits nowadays. Surely, they have their moments that may sound like other artists, but I am not aware of them and would genuinely be interested in finding out what those artists are. Who knows, I might check them out and the world will be a better place. How is Negura Bunget so very original? I love the band, but in terms of black metal tropes it does not seem a truly remarkable departure from Ulver's Bergtatt, Burzum's Filosofem or other 90s French atmospheric BM outfits. What exactly is so unoriginal about UJD and Frogg Cafe? What are their (maybe-not-so-)obvious influences and how much they weigh? Any particular moments in their songs that spring associations to mind? When you talk about modern prog bands, do you include bands like Arcturus, GY!BE, Sleepytime Gorilla Museum, The Mars Volta or Ved Buens Ende? They surely have discernible influences, but would you go so far as to call them derivative? And if so, to what extent would you say these acts are more derivative than old prog acts that drew their influences from blues, jazz and contemporary music? Those are the kinds of questions that, if answered, would make this thread so much more interesting (and myself so much prouder of wandering on the PA threads).

Nathaniel607 wrote: Nice post! I agree with this but I also want to say that people seem to be concentrating on what bands "sound" like as opposed to actual composition. Walter seems to want bands to invent new instruments and notes every time they write a song, but just because a composition uses the same instruments, or even the same textures or the same chords, doesn't mean it isn't original.

Good observation.  I think, rather than the scene being generally highly derivative, what we are seeing is a lot of fans don't mind the bands being derivative if they evoke a certain kind of sound they like. So, derivative and more original albums alike have less divergent ratings or even appreciation and we are then faced with a sea of highly rated, highly derivative bands.  Also, what some people may be addressing is more a lack of brilliance.  From what modern prog I have heard, there's not much I'd consider brilliant, though quite a lot that I'd consider good or very good.   But just because an album is not brilliant doesn't mean there's no effort to be original on the part of the songwriter(s).

^ I think you're confusing "sounding like" with "ripping off".

timburlane wrote: harmonium.ro wrote: ^ I think you're confusing "sounding like" with "ripping off". No

Correct.