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Joined: January 13 2009
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 124
Topic: Prog’s Most Derivative Moments! Posted: January 15 2011 at 13:28
I know.I’m a trouble maker, but lets view this as a test of tolerance within open communication!
Starcastle:Someone mentioned Starcastle in another thread, and it reminded me of just how much I couldn’t stop thinking “Yes, Yes, Yes”when I played my Starcastle CD for the first and last time.They clearly were very capable musicians, but took their study of Yes a little too far. I can't think of a more derivative band.
Eloy:Now I really like Eloy - have several of their albums -- so don’t yell at me.And I also really like their version of Pink Floyd’s Wish You Were Here album on their own Silent Cries and Might Echoes.
Black Sabbath:A great heavy metal band, but does anyone else thing that Iron Man may have taken a lick or two from 21st Century Schizoid Man?
The only two I know - and they're both prog related, are Deep Purple stealing "Child in Time" and Led Zeppelin stealing pretty much everything.
EDIT
Also, wtf at OP suggesting Black Sabbath stole riffs from 20th Century Schizoid Man. I'm assuming you mean the chromatic ones, in which case, THEY'RE FREAKING CHROMATIC. Every rising or descending chromatic riff sounds pretty much the same (regardless of what key it starts on). They've been used before Schizoid Man, loads.
Or if you mean the main riff, then I guess it is vaguely reminiscent, but seriously, if you think that vague reminiscence means they stole it, you have absolutely no concept of how music works.
Joined: January 13 2009
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 124
Posted: January 15 2011 at 14:35
Not even just little remotely?LOL!Lets start with them playing off of this alien schizoid/iron “man” motif.On Schizoid Man the voice is mechanical and distorted (like an iron man).They were two of the heaviest songs up to that point, they have similar riffs, rhythms and cadence.And then both break into a very similar extended guitar break with very similar notes after the basic song is established. Of course the KC song came first.
Not even just little remotely?LOL!Lets start with them playing off of this alien schizoid/iron “man” motif.On Schizoid Man the voice is mechanical and distorted (like an iron man).They were two of the heaviest songs up to that point, they have similar riffs, rhythms and cadence.And then both break into a very similar extended guitar break with very similar notes after the basic song is established. Of course the KC song came first.
1) Seriously. Distorted voices is a minor coincidence. They WERE writing a song about IRON MAN. As in, a robot. As in, probably with some kind of distorted, robot-like voice.
2) They don't have similar riffs at all. The rhythm of the main riff is vaguely similar, the chromatic riffs are chromatic so of course they sound similar.
3) That's kind of a popular cadence.
4) Two songs with a guitar solo obviously means one was stolen.
Joined: January 13 2009
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 124
Posted: January 15 2011 at 15:04
1) Seriously. Distorted voices is a minor coincidence. They WERE writing a song about IRON MAN. As in, a robot. As in, probably with some kind of distorted, robot-like voice.
And because they liked what KC had done, with the basic concept of this alientated/different man thing
2) They don't have similar riffs at all. The rhythm of the main riff is vaguely similar, the chromatic riffs are chromatic so of course they sound similar. AND
3) That's kind of a popular cadence.
Look, you're the one that said "no, not remotely" that they sound nothing lilke each other.
4) Two songs with a guitar solo obviously means one was stolen.
thats not what I said. I said "And then both break into a very similar extended guitar break with very similar notes after the basic song is established." Its more than just two separate guitar solos.
Thanks for your very kind and thoughtful remarks about "then you have absolutely no concept of how music works." I have 4000 LPs/CDs, and have been playing pretty good guitar for 30 years, but maybe you're right.
1) Seriously. Distorted voices is a minor coincidence. They WERE writing a song about IRON MAN. As in, a robot. As in, probably with some kind of distorted, robot-like voice.
And because they liked what KC had done, with the basic concept of this alientated/different man thing
Of course! A song about an alienated person! That is so original it music be plagiarism.
2) They don't have similar riffs at all. The rhythm of the main riff is vaguely similar, the chromatic riffs are chromatic so of course they sound similar. AND
3) That's kind of a popular cadence.
Look, you're the one that said "no, not remotely" that they sound nothing lilke each other.
That was another guy. But still - the riffs are no where near plagiarism levels of similarity, just not completely different.
4) Two songs with a guitar solo obviously means one was stolen.
thats not what I said. I said "And then both break into a very similar extended guitar break with very similar notes after the basic song is established." Its more than just two separate guitar solos.
Same point. Guitar breaks/instrumental breaks in general are pretty damn common. I don't get how you can say they have similar notes... the Black Sabbath ones are pretty simple solos on the blues scale an over some chords, where as the King Crimson ones are fairly atonal madness over a crazy bass riff with some very dissonant noise in between.
Thanks for your very kind and thoughtful remarks about "then you have absolutely no concept of how music works." I have 4000 LPs/CDs, and have been playing pretty good guitar for 30 years, but maybe you're right.
Much appreciated.
Do you learn music theory? It doesn't matter how many albums you listen to, if you don't know theory then it doesn't matter. If you do know music theory, it's even more surprising you'd even consider Black Sabbath stole from King Crimson.
WalterDigsTunes wrote:
The correct answer is ALL contemporary prog.
Oh for f**ks sake.
Snow Dog wrote:
Led Zep stealing everything? Wow that is very nearly funny.
I'm not joking you know. They stole asstons of music. Here's a bunch of them;
[A]s far as my end of it goes, I always tried to bring something fresh to anything that I used. I always made sure to come up with some variation. In fact, I think in most cases, you would never know what the original source could be. Maybe not in every case -- but in most cases. So most of the comparisons rest on the lyrics. And Robert was supposed to change the lyrics, and he didn't always do that -- which is what brought on most of the grief. They couldn't get us on the guitar parts of the music, but they nailed us on the lyrics. We did, however, take some liberties, I must say [laughs]. But never mind; we did try to do the right thing.
Joined: September 11 2007
Location: SanDiegoTijuana
Status: Offline
Points: 4373
Posted: January 15 2011 at 15:52
Nathaniel607 wrote:
WalterDigsTunes wrote:
The correct answer is ALL contemporary prog.
Oh for f**ks sake.
Prove me wrong. Oh, but that would imply that post-89 garage isn't absolutely derivative filth produced in a worthless digital age hamstrung by atrocious post-modern values. Poor you.
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Prog’s Most Derivative Moments!
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