On the burning of books ...

thellama73 wrote: I have no idea what this thread is about any more. What do German laws have to do with the original topic? Nothing, I say!

Yes, apart from a large helping of Schadenfreude, nothing really.

aginor wrote: Ich can nicht verstehe was diesen discusion ist vor

Ich bin rechts und Sie sind falsch Seite 16

Freude, schöner Götterfunken,
Tochter aus Elysium,
Wir betreten feuertrunken.
Himmlische, dein Heiligtum!
Deine Zauber binden wieder
Was die Mode streng geteilt;
Alle Menschen werden Brüder
Wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt.

Edited by The T - September 17 2010 at 12:55

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: Just in case, Glorification of National Socialism is not a crime per se in this case t's just a worst form of agitation of people:   Section 130 Agitation of the People   (...)   (3) Whoever publicly or in a meeting approves of, denies or renders harmless an act committed under the rule of National Socialism of the type indicated in Section 220a subsection (1), in a manner capable of disturbing the public peace shall be punished with imprisonment for not more than five years or a fine.     As a fact, the accusation of this guys must have been done for Agitation of People in the form of Glorification of National Socialism,  and being that both (burning books in public) are a same crime, the DA had to choose the worst one, but you need two components for his crime:   1.- Alter public order 2.- Glorify National Socialism or deny holocaust.   Leave law interpretation to the lawyers and legislators.   Iván

Well, thanks for confirming that this isn't related to the burning of books. I'm well aware of this type of German legislation - it deals specifically with our past as a country. Freedom of speech/expression is limited in Germany when it comes to National Socialism - you may even be sent to prison for raising your right arm in an particular way. IMO there are better ways to fight radicals than outlawing topics and making special exceptions, and hopefully at some point in the near future we'll be able to leave this behind us.


Edited by Mr ProgFreak - September 17 2010 at 13:54

^ Sure, there are other actions/groups that qualify, but the paragraph was created primarily to deal with Neo National Socialism. 1 and 2 deal with the generalized version (hate crimes, racism, nationalism ...) while 3, 4 and 5 deal with National Socialism.

BTW: Your mannerism is pathetic ... particularly speaking of yourself as "us" (as if it was you and the rest of the world against Mike) and addressing me in the third person.

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: Mr ProgFreak wrote: ^ Sure, there are other actions/groups that qualify, but the paragraph was created primarily to deal with Neo National Socialism. 1 and 2 deal with the generalized version (hate crimes, racism, nationalism ...) while 3, 4 and 5 deal with National Socialism.   That's what I said, paragraphs 1 and 2 qualify as hate crimes and any good lawyer can include Qur'an burning into it.

And any good lawyer could defend against it.

Iván wrote: Mr ProgFreak wrote: BTW: Your mannerism is pathetic ... particularly speaking of yourself as "us" (as if it was you and the rest of the world against Mike) and addressing me in the third person.   Where have I spoken about me as us?

"Please illuminate us with your legal wisdom"

Iván wrote:  I never use the majestic plural, I'm not part of an imaginary nobility, the head of the Catholic Church or Richard Dawkins   Always refered to me as I (first person sigular).   Iván

I rest my case again.

Incidentally: I have many good friends from University who studied law ... two of them are judges. I will ask them about their opinion on this matter and post it here. If I'm wrong I'll gladly admit it, but I'm still very sure that you could not use STGB 130 in this case. Remember, we're talking about people burning their own books as a statement of protest. 

Mr ProgFreak wrote: Incidentally: I have many good friends from University who studied law ... two of them are judges. I will ask them about their opinion on this matter and post it here. If I'm wrong I'll gladly admit it, but I'm still very sure that you could not use STGB 130 in this case. Remember, we're talking about people burning their own books as a statement of protest.

Mr ProgFreak wrote: Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: Read my previous post Mike, If you can't notice that Iluminate us with your wisdoom, is a sarcastic phrase asking you to iluminate all Prog Archives with your "wisdom",, being that now you are lawyer, well Mike......    Iván Sarcasm not withstanding, "us" is plural. And you've been doing that on many occasions, usually in a religious context (e.g. "us Christians" or "us Catholics"). Come on, you often reminded me that precision is important, and now you, the lawyer, ask me to ignore the fine print?

Mr ProgFreak wrote: If my close friends and relatives are any indication, the pope does not represent all catholics.