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The T 
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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 Posted: July 20 2010 at 09:58 |
 Equality 7-2521 wrote:
Individual freedom is an American thing, that's why we broke from the old world and its terrors. |
You come from the old world and its terrors Equality. America didn't just pop out of the map suddenly in 1776.
I think individualism is a result of a spoiled nation. But that actually belongs in the "libertarians" thread... 
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Icarium
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: March 21 2008
Location: Tigerstaden
Status: Offline
Points: 34083
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Posted: July 20 2010 at 10:39 |
why not ban the palestina scarf as well  , lets see if anyone will refuse that. I have never wered one and never will, I don't like to flag out my political view in any way but that is another post/thread
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: July 20 2010 at 11:34 |
Let's ban miniskirts too... And all kinds of accident-causing clothes
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BaldJean
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 28 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10387
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Posted: July 20 2010 at 11:46 |
The T wrote:
Let's ban miniskirts too... And all kinds of accident-causing clothes |
that's the spirit. you seem to have come off the fence
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 A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: July 20 2010 at 11:50 |
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: July 20 2010 at 12:27 |
The T wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
Individual freedom is an American thing, that's why we broke from the old world and its terrors. |
You come from the old world and its terrors Equality. America didn't just pop out of the map suddenly in 1776.
I think individualism is a result of a spoiled nation. But that actually belongs in the "libertarians" thread... |
And we call came from atoms centered in a neat quantum hell. What does that have to do with anything? One can't deny how radically different the American style of government and political thought was to any country preceding it. It was the result of a people who wished to be free from tyrannical government. What you call selfish, I call caring for other's welfare.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: July 20 2010 at 12:35 |
At that time maybe... But now, if your views are "caring for others' welfare", I can just say
 ...
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: July 20 2010 at 13:29 |
The T wrote:
At that time maybe... But now, if your views are "caring for others' welfare", I can just say
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So its selfish of me to want women to be able to wear what they chose? Sounds like caring for others lives and decisions to me.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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thellama73
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 29 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8368
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Posted: July 20 2010 at 13:47 |
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The T wrote:
At that time maybe... But now, if your views are "caring for others' welfare", I can just say
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So its selfish of me to want women to be able to wear what they chose? Sounds like caring for others lives and decisions to me.
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I've always had a hard time understanding the selfish argument. It's selfish for me to want to keep the money I earn, but it's not selfish for the left to ban everything it disapproves of (smoking, fast food, Republicans) and demand the subsidization of everything it likes (NPR, Amtrak, farmers.) I once had a boss who wanted cigarettes to be made illegal, because he didn't like them. I asked him if he thought alcohol should be banned as well, and he said "Well no, I like alcohol." Isn't that selfish?
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: July 20 2010 at 13:52 |
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This just in: burqua wearers have approved a ban on French...
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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thellama73
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 29 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8368
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Posted: July 20 2010 at 13:54 |
Slartibartfast wrote:
This just in: burqua wearers have approved a ban on French...
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Finally! A ban I can get behind. 
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: July 20 2010 at 13:55 |
thellama73 wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The T wrote:
At that time maybe... But now, if your views are "caring for others' welfare", I can just say
...
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So its selfish of me to want women to be able to wear what they chose? Sounds like caring for others lives and decisions to me.
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I've always had a hard time understanding the selfish argument. It's selfish for me to want to keep the money I earn, but it's not selfish for the left to ban everything it disapproves of (smoking, fast food, Republicans) and demand the subsidization of everything it likes (NPR, Amtrak, farmers.)
I once had a boss who wanted cigarettes to be made illegal, because he didn't like them. I asked him if he thought alcohol should be banned as well, and he said "Well no, I like alcohol." Isn't that selfish?
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We have to stop agreeing on things. I think my liberal brain is going to shut off soon! Anyone ever hear the "I may not agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it" I dont smoke, but I think the bans on it are crazy. For several reasons, but one being the whole libertarian thing. I am far from religious, in fact I'd say I dislike organized religion and church, but can we ban religious artifacts???
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: July 20 2010 at 14:07 |
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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akamaisondufromage
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: May 16 2009
Location: Blighty
Status: Offline
Points: 6797
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Posted: July 20 2010 at 14:08 |
thellama73 wrote:
Slartibartfast wrote:
This just in: burqua wearers have approved a ban on French Fries |
Finally! A ban I can get behind.
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^ Damn you Mr Bartfast beat me to it!
I like French Cricket tooo!
Edited by akamaisondufromage - July 20 2010 at 14:11
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Help me I'm falling!
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Henry Plainview
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 26 2008
Location: Declined
Status: Offline
Points: 16715
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Posted: July 20 2010 at 14:24 |
thellama73 wrote:
I've always had a hard time understanding the selfish argument. It's selfish for me to want to keep the money I earn, but it's not selfish for the left to ban everything it disapproves of (smoking, fast food, Republicans) and demand the subsidization of everything it likes (NPR, Amtrak, farmers.)
I once had a boss who wanted cigarettes to be made illegal, because he didn't like them. I asked him if he thought alcohol should be banned as well, and he said "Well no, I like alcohol." Isn't that selfish?
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Smoking harms those around you, while alcohol does not, so I am 100% unsympathetic to smokers who want to smoke inside. Even if everybody else in the bar or restaurant smokes and those who don't can choose to go somewhere else (although that may be difficult if all bars are smoking), the staff may not be so lucky, and you are killing them slowly because you can't be bothered to go outside. And while I also take issue with our massive farm subsidies, characterizing it as only a liberal issue is incorrect. The 2008 farm bill passed 318-106 and 77-15 and I can't find the totals for the other bills so easily and I'm lazy, but I'm pretty sure the Reps from Ohio, Idaho, Illinois, etc. don't consistently vote against them.
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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thellama73
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 29 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8368
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Posted: July 20 2010 at 14:27 |
Henry Plainview wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
I've always had a hard time understanding the selfish argument. It's selfish for me to want to keep the money I earn, but it's not selfish for the left to ban everything it disapproves of (smoking, fast food, Republicans) and demand the subsidization of everything it likes (NPR, Amtrak, farmers.)
I once had a boss who wanted cigarettes to be made illegal, because he didn't like them. I asked him if he thought alcohol should be banned as well, and he said "Well no, I like alcohol." Isn't that selfish?
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Smoking harms those around you, while alcohol does not, so I am 100% unsympathetic to smokers who want to smoke inside. Even if everybody else in the bar or restaurant smokes and those who don't can choose to go somewhere else (although that may be difficult if all bars are smoking), the staff may not be so lucky, and you are killing them slowly because you can't be bothered to go outside. And while I also take issue with our massive farm subsidies, characterizing it as only a liberal issue is incorrect. The 2008 farm bill passed 318-106 and 77-15 and I can't find the totals for the other bills so easily and I'm lazy, but I'm pretty sure the Reps from Ohio, Idaho, Illinois, etc. don't consistently vote against them. |
Oh really? Alcohol doesn't harm others? What about drunk driving or the abuse to family and friends committed by alcoholics? Anyway, that's beside the point, because his reason for wanting smoking banned was not based on health concerns, but rather on the fact that he just didn't like it.
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: July 20 2010 at 14:31 |
Henry Plainview wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
I've always had a hard time understanding the selfish argument. It's selfish for me to want to keep the money I earn, but it's not selfish for the left to ban everything it disapproves of (smoking, fast food, Republicans) and demand the subsidization of everything it likes (NPR, Amtrak, farmers.)
I once had a boss who wanted cigarettes to be made illegal, because he didn't like them. I asked him if he thought alcohol should be banned as well, and he said "Well no, I like alcohol." Isn't that selfish?
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Smoking harms those around you, while alcohol does not, so I am 100% unsympathetic to smokers who want to smoke inside. Even if everybody else in the bar or restaurant smokes and those who don't can choose to go somewhere else (although that may be difficult if all bars are smoking), the staff may not be so lucky, and you are killing them slowly because you can't be bothered to go outside. And while I also take issue with our massive farm subsidies, characterizing it as only a liberal issue is incorrect. The 2008 farm bill passed 318-106 and 77-15 and I can't find the totals for the other bills so easily and I'm lazy, but I'm pretty sure the Reps from Ohio, Idaho, Illinois, etc. don't consistently vote against them. |
Apparently you're also unsympathetic to the idea of owning your own property and being able to determine how people can behave within it.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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jampa17
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2009
Location: Guatemala
Status: Offline
Points: 6802
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Posted: July 20 2010 at 14:47 |
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
Henry Plainview wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
I've always had a hard time understanding the selfish argument. It's selfish for me to want to keep the money I earn, but it's not selfish for the left to ban everything it disapproves of (smoking, fast food, Republicans) and demand the subsidization of everything it likes (NPR, Amtrak, farmers.)
I once had a boss who wanted cigarettes to be made illegal, because he didn't like them. I asked him if he thought alcohol should be banned as well, and he said "Well no, I like alcohol." Isn't that selfish?
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Smoking harms those around you, while alcohol does not, so I am 100% unsympathetic to smokers who want to smoke inside. Even if everybody else in the bar or restaurant smokes and those who don't can choose to go somewhere else (although that may be difficult if all bars are smoking), the staff may not be so lucky, and you are killing them slowly because you can't be bothered to go outside. And while I also take issue with our massive farm subsidies, characterizing it as only a liberal issue is incorrect. The 2008 farm bill passed 318-106 and 77-15 and I can't find the totals for the other bills so easily and I'm lazy, but I'm pretty sure the Reps from Ohio, Idaho, Illinois, etc. don't consistently vote against them. |
Apparently you're also unsympathetic to the idea of owning your own property and being able to determine how people can behave within it.
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But when you have a "Public service" you can't aloud anything you want, because there will be many people in there and the respect of each other rights is the goal right?
I agree with the idea of freedom in your property, but when you offer a public service, you have to submit your freedom to the other ones rights...
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Change the program inside... Stay in silence is a crime.
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thellama73
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 29 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8368
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Posted: July 20 2010 at 14:49 |
jampa17 wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
Henry Plainview wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
I've always had a hard time understanding the selfish argument. It's selfish for me to want to keep the money I earn, but it's not selfish for the left to ban everything it disapproves of (smoking, fast food, Republicans) and demand the subsidization of everything it likes (NPR, Amtrak, farmers.)
I once had a boss who wanted cigarettes to be made illegal, because he didn't like them. I asked him if he thought alcohol should be banned as well, and he said "Well no, I like alcohol." Isn't that selfish?
|
Smoking harms those around you, while alcohol does not, so I am 100% unsympathetic to smokers who want to smoke inside. Even if everybody else in the bar or restaurant smokes and those who don't can choose to go somewhere else (although that may be difficult if all bars are smoking), the staff may not be so lucky, and you are killing them slowly because you can't be bothered to go outside. And while I also take issue with our massive farm subsidies, characterizing it as only a liberal issue is incorrect. The 2008 farm bill passed 318-106 and 77-15 and I can't find the totals for the other bills so easily and I'm lazy, but I'm pretty sure the Reps from Ohio, Idaho, Illinois, etc. don't consistently vote against them. |
Apparently you're also unsympathetic to the idea of owning your own property and being able to determine how people can behave within it.
|
But when you have a "Public service" you can't aloud anything you want, because there will be many people in there and the respect of each other rights is the goal right?
I agree with the idea of freedom in your property, but when you offer a public service, you have to submit your freedom to the other ones rights... |
That is true, which is why I generally don't support public services. 
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: July 20 2010 at 15:00 |
jampa17 wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
Henry Plainview wrote:
thellama73 wrote:
I've always had a hard time understanding the selfish argument. It's selfish for me to want to keep the money I earn, but it's not selfish for the left to ban everything it disapproves of (smoking, fast food, Republicans) and demand the subsidization of everything it likes (NPR, Amtrak, farmers.)
I once had a boss who wanted cigarettes to be made illegal, because he didn't like them. I asked him if he thought alcohol should be banned as well, and he said "Well no, I like alcohol." Isn't that selfish?
|
Smoking harms those around you, while alcohol does not, so I am 100% unsympathetic to smokers who want to smoke inside. Even if everybody else in the bar or restaurant smokes and those who don't can choose to go somewhere else (although that may be difficult if all bars are smoking), the staff may not be so lucky, and you are killing them slowly because you can't be bothered to go outside. And while I also take issue with our massive farm subsidies, characterizing it as only a liberal issue is incorrect. The 2008 farm bill passed 318-106 and 77-15 and I can't find the totals for the other bills so easily and I'm lazy, but I'm pretty sure the Reps from Ohio, Idaho, Illinois, etc. don't consistently vote against them. |
Apparently you're also unsympathetic to the idea of owning your own property and being able to determine how people can behave within it.
|
But when you have a "Public service" you can't aloud anything you want, because there will be many people in there and the respect of each other rights is the goal right?
I agree with the idea of freedom in your property, but when you offer a public service, you have to submit your freedom to the other ones rights... |
If I own a bar, I should be free to dictate what behavior incurs therein. If you object to breathing in smoke, you can migrate to some bar which has banned it. Just as you don't go to the beach if you wish to avoid the ill effects of the sun, you'll avoid my bar if you wish to avoid the ill effects of 2nd hand smoke.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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/PAlogo_v2.gif "Progarchives.com Homepage")
French approve ban on burqas...
