French approve ban on burqas...

This appears to be Sarkozy trying to appeal to far right voters. Legislating against items of clothing is the sort of nonesense you'd expect in a country like Iran or Saudi, not a modern progressive, multiculural society like France.

I dont persoanlly like to see women in Bhurkas and similar attire. As a westerner I percieve it to be a symbol of oppression and a backward culture, but it is not perceived as such by most women who wear these things. The French have said it will be a difficult law to enforce, and quite understandably most women have said will not adhere to it.

This is said to be part of the ongoing discussion in France about what constitiutes 'French identity' I'm not sure if Sarkozy would like all his citizens to dress in striped shirts, with a string of onion round their neck, playing accordions on street corners, but when you consider there are over 5 million Muslims on France, not to mention hundreds of other ethnic groups, then you have to concede that the 'identity' of modern France is one of a multicultural melting pot. Whether one likes it, or not.

Please remember people, site rules state all posts to be in English - many thanks.

Epignosis wrote: The most frequent response to the question, "What do you admire least about the West?" was the general perception of moral decay, promiscuity and pornography that pollsters called the "Hollywood image" that is regarded as degrading to women.

Is that "Hollywood image" showing one's face in public?

I would have thought they'd least admire us for invading the sh*t out of their countries but no, they've got some weird Puritan in Baghdad thing going on.

CPicard wrote: Gamemako, si tu es bel et bien français ou vivant en France, par pitié, ne te mêle pas de ce débat. En fait, à tous les Français du forum, n'intervenons pas dans ce thread.

Oh my, I forgot that was never changed back. To clarify for everyone, I am not a French citizen nor do I currently reside in France. I have long since returned to the United States, where I am a citizen. I apologize for the misunderstanding.

hey at least it's a chance for us bedwetting progressives to agree on something with our faithful libertines.. and for me, it's not even an issue of debasing women; that's a given and it's detestable.  But if some of these gals wanna wear a scary-looking black hood, then it becomes a matter of basic individual rights.  And since presumably the country of France is not a private institution, you can't really just take those rights away.

Padraic wrote: let's put a burqa over this discussion

You would still be able to smell it.

let's put a burqa over this discussion

JLocke wrote: Epignosis wrote: JLocke wrote: What SHOULD be somehow prohibited by law is the religion's persecution of those who may choose to not wear the burqa. Judgment and shunning to the point of shame or exile still happens sometimes among radicals, even in western/westernized cultures. THAT is something reprehensible and just plain wrong, from any angle. And just how should such "judgment and shunning to the point of shame" be regulated, might I ask? Did I say it could, or did I say it should?

That's fair.

You should know though that in modern (not just ancient) middle Eastern and Mediterranean cultures, shame is a big motivator for maintaining a certain behavior.  I've read that natives will even lie to tourists asking for directions rather than admit not knowing.

Now I said you should know this...I didn't say you could. 

JLocke wrote: What SHOULD be somehow prohibited by law is the religion's persecution of those who may choose to not wear the burqa. Judgment and shunning to the point of shame or exile still happens sometimes among radicals, even in western/westernized cultures. THAT is something reprehensible and just plain wrong, from any angle.

And just how should such "judgment and shunning to the point of shame" be regulated, might I ask?

JLocke wrote: I think the concept of lowering women's self-worth and importance is detestable.  Having said that, I'm going to have to call ''bullsh*t'' on this ban. I agree with it emotionally, but can't approve of such a thing, mainly on principle. Freedom means freedom, and making something like a religion-induced garb literally illegal goes against a lot of what I feel to be correct.  I'm no fan of this stuff, but forcing people into leaving it behind by placing harsh laws isn't the way to go about this. Folks need to leave this type of thing by their own accord, not because the lawmakers tell them to.

I agree with this, basically.