Prog and Intellect

There's a difference between disliking philosophy and being philosophical. The study of Philosophy for philosophy's sake is not being philosophical and there is a difference between having a (personal) philosophy and having to read (and pretend to understand) the interminable drivel of "professional" philosophers in the vain hope that it will explain something that cannot be explained by just thinking about it. Name dropping Nietzsche, Kant or Wittgenstein just means I know how to use Wikipedia, and Rob's joke about Popeye being an existentialist flies over my head and lies in a crumpled heap on the floor behind me. Do you have to be a sophist to be sophisticated, do you have to be philosophical to love wisdom?

 

btw: I'm not anti-intellectual, just anti-philosopher.

 

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I, also, get rather confused sometimes about the negative associations with the word "intellectual." We are animals with the capacity for symbolic thought and political organization. To forget any of these things, or to under-value any of these things, is, IMO, to devalue our humanity.

As for the relationship between prog and intellect, I suppose there may be one, but certainly not one that is, in any absolute sense, exclusive. Many prog songs and prog artists address themselves to the intellect. Many don't. Perhaps the ratio is different in more popular genres, but absolute judgements are out of place. Hell, there are even some smart country songs out there.  In any case, though, I do not think it is a matter of one type of music being innately smarter than another, but rather a case of which human faculties any given artist chooses to address in any given song. In prog, I've found that my intellect is address fairly often, but the same is true, as has been pointed out in this thread, with jazz and classical music. I could also say the same about much of Woody Guthrie's music, and a long list of others.

Well said, T

There's not necessarily anything wrong with the word 'intellectual'. As the guy writing in red says, in this particular context - where it (as I see it) is used to refer to the range of people who assumes a possible correlation between prog and intellect -  there is something wrong with it.

kingfriso wrote: I myself am an intellectual, which means I study and have an interest in head-breaking matters as world politics, art, ethics, philosophy, physics and human behaviors. The majority of people in Holland (I don't know what's the situation in other countries) don't care about more then one of these intellectual matters I've mentioned (I guess 40% don't care about a single one).

To make guesses like that disqualifies you as an intellectual. You really can't say unless you examine it properly (ie. not solely based on own or peer experiences). A survey determined to find out what percentage of Hollands population engage themselves in this sort of higher thinking would be pseudoscientific and plain stupid. Luckily, not everyone thinks about things in abstract and complex terms. We need intellectuals - but we certainly also need those who are not 'tormented' by head-breaking matters.

Also, real intellectuals would never present themselves as intellectuals. They are called so by others and it would be way too self-indulgent. 

I have an interest in language, and I have been studying lingustics for a long period of years now. It means that I have aquired a skill to think (talk and write) about language in an abstract and complex way. And in most senses I guess I can't really escape being an 'intellectual' or a 'wannabe-intellectual' - but would never claim to be one.

The whole issue of a possible correlation between 'prog' and 'intellect' is nonsense.

I prefer Shakespeare's version much better ... something to the effect that he that hath no music has no soul! ... it says it all way better ... and to say that nobody has reflected more than Nietzche is rather small minded and not intellectual at all in my book, since there are so many ... so many ... out there that talk and discuss music and intellect ... but get blown away by "fans" ... and this board is a very good example of it. And there are a lot of people here that are very good, very intellectual, and also knowledgeable ... and have a massive history of things behind their noggin ... and the real issue is ... how open minded are you to want to increase your knowledge and appreciation with all the folks here (not just some! ALL), without judgement or idealism in the way? ... just remember that "music" is the essence of life, love and communication. The rest is talk!" ... and I wrote that!

 

Music, pure abstract music (instrumental music, he probably was talking about classical music) IS the best bridge to the actual human feeling, it's a window to the true inner self of the artist, where he doesn't rely on words, where he can't communicate anything directly and has to employ sound, which go straight pass the language-processing areas of the brain into regions more related to memory and emotion... Music is the greatest of the arts. As much as I love prog, I don't think prog is the greatest of the arts though. But it's a great one and even sublime one in the right hands.