Prog and Intellect

Sckxyss wrote: there may be the odd "stupid" person who listens to prog.

+++forum moderator bites lip+++

Dean wrote: Blah, I hate philosophy and philosophers, the only one who got it right was Popeye...

That existential nitwit? 

Sckxyss wrote: You're all being too modest. I'm not going to proclaim myself as a genius, but I can say pretty confidently that the average intelligence of the population of prog (or jazz, or academic music) listeners will be greater than that of the general population. Of course there are countless intelligent people who don't care for it, and there may be the odd "stupid" person who listens to prog, but think about the general population for a second. Maybe you guys have me fooled, but it seems to me like everyone here has a pretty good head on their shoulders. I wouldn't be so confident in the populations of many other social networks, or the majority of people I know personally.I can't prove this, but just open your eyes to the amount of stupid that's out there, and compare that to the prog fans you know. I'm not saying we're geniuses. I'm also not saying it's the only type of music that can be associated with intellect; you can find sophistication in any major genre.I agree with Henry Plainview's point that a willigness to be open to new things is probably the biggest contributer to the enjoyment of any experimental music. I have a hunch that that quality would correlate with intelligence as well, though.

Sorry, but this doesn't really stand up, even as a generalisation. Firstly, you need to define what 'stupid' means. Is stupid a lack of mathamatical problem solving intelligence? Is it a tendency to act in reckless way, with no consideration of consequence? Is it down to learning difficulties, or mental illness or blah, blah...etc etc..

You see where I'm going?

I can count the people I actually KNOW who like prog on less than two hands. I have met most of them here, and yes, they are pretty smart people, but I know countless people who dont like prog and they are also just as smart; well educated, in good careers, with a healthy sense of what's right and what's wrong.

Also, quality of music correlating to intellect is a bit of an wooly idea. Different musical styles will define quality in different ways. The standards of quality are set within these respective genres. One paradigm in prog rock is that good musicianship is a mark of quality to some degree, and for most fans. In other musical genres, a high standard of musicanship may be incidental or un-necessary.

Dick Heath wrote: Tony R wrote: I yam what I yam.   Are you saying: a sweet potato rather than a hot potato of a topic???

Many people confuse this. The Sweet Potato is not part of the same family as the yam. I'd expect a fellow Brit to know this...

Jim Garten wrote: Aha - maybe our esteemed Mr Heath's evident lack of tuber knowlege shows him up to be the exception proving the argument vis a vis prog fan intelligence

They're all the same these DJs; brain-addled with years and years of substance abuse and loose women.

presdoug wrote: i am curious to know if german philosopher Arthur Schoepenhauer, who influenced Nietzsche, and was admired by Wagner, ever made any direct comments about music, like Nietzsche had?

Yep.

He said:

Der Prog Rocke ist fur die dumkopfs, gibt mir Rapp jeder tag.

presdoug wrote: i am curious to know if german philosopher Arthur Schoepenhauer, who influenced Nietzsche, and was admired by Wagner, ever made any direct comments about music, like Nietzsche had?

Or you could just Wikiquote him


“Music is the melody whose text is the world.”


...which sounds like Coca-Cola philosophy to me.


Edited by Dean - May 20 2010 at 09:02

Blacksword wrote: Sckxyss wrote: You're all being too modest. I'm not going to proclaim myself as a genius, but I can say pretty confidently that the average intelligence of the population of prog (or jazz, or academic music) listeners will be greater than that of the general population. Of course there are countless intelligent people who don't care for it, and there may be the odd "stupid" person who listens to prog, but think about the general population for a second. Maybe you guys have me fooled, but it seems to me like everyone here has a pretty good head on their shoulders. I wouldn't be so confident in the populations of many other social networks, or the majority of people I know personally.I can't prove this, but just open your eyes to the amount of stupid that's out there, and compare that to the prog fans you know. I'm not saying we're geniuses. I'm also not saying it's the only type of music that can be associated with intellect; you can find sophistication in any major genre.I agree with Henry Plainview's point that a willigness to be open to new things is probably the biggest contributer to the enjoyment of any experimental music. I have a hunch that that quality would correlate with intelligence as well, though. Sorry, but this doesn't really stand up, even as a generalisation. Firstly, you need to define what 'stupid' means. Is stupid a lack of mathamatical problem solving intelligence? Is it a tendency to act in reckless way, with no consideration of consequence? Is it down to learning difficulties, or mental illness or blah, blah...etc etc.. You see where I'm going? True. It's not easy to define "stupid" in a concrete way. It's like defining what's "prog" or not; sometimes you just know. I realize that's not a sound argument, but I'm not here to outline the qualities of a stupid person. To clarify, I'm not talking about something as shallow as mathematical skill or breadth of knowledge, but more along the lines of their ability to think analytically and reason, and their sense of logic. I can count the people I actually KNOW who like prog on less than two hands. I have met most of them here, and yes, they are pretty smart people, but I know countless people who dont like prog and they are also just as smart; well educated, in good careers, with a healthy sense of what's right and what's wrong. This doesn't contradict anything I said. I agree with this. Also, quality of music correlating to intellect is a bit of an wooly idea. Different musical styles will define quality in different ways. The standards of quality are set within these respective genres. One paradigm in prog rock is that good musicianship is a mark of quality to some degree, and for most fans. In other musical genres, a high standard of musicanship may be incidental or un-necessary. I agree with this too. I never said prog was better because it has a generally intelligent fanbase. Personally, I enjoy lots of music that I consider to be less academic than prog.

Jim Garten wrote: Aha - maybe our esteemed Mr Heath's evident lack of tuber knowlege shows him up to be the exception proving the argument vis a vis prog fan intelligence

So he's not like all you Tuber Smarties?

Jim Garten wrote: Tony R wrote: presdoug wrote: i am curious to know if german philosopher Arthur Schoepenhauer, who influenced Nietzsche, and was admired by Wagner, ever made any direct comments about music, like Nietzsche had? Yep.He said:Der Prog Rocke ist fur die dumkopfs, gibt mir Rapp jeder tag. That's as maybe, but the eminent Arab philosopher Alsheikh Rafa'a Altahtawi posits: Alsheikh Rafa'a Altahtawi wrote: ليس صخرة تقدّميّة ال [إإكسكلوسف بروبرتي] من المثقفة, [نو متّر وهت] ضيّقة يبالى طالبات مدّعية يمكن فكّرت And I really don't think you can argue with that

No officer above the rank of mess sergeant is permitted to go into combat with pierced nipples


Err, quite Jim.