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Points: 7971 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2010 at 12:25
Originally posted by progressive progressive wrote:

Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:

Originally posted by The T The T wrote:



But fanbases etc... I don't know if it matters. I mean, to me there's very many "legends" that even most proggers haven't heard. One example that everyone knows is Dün. With this I agree. They're legends apparently.. for the 64 people that know them... 



lol, my thoughts on zehul exactly.

Sounds a bit negative (though I don't know what do you exactly mean). Are they inferior to more known legends?


It is simple: zehul is great, but it doesn't mean anything to prog rock, it is secondary at most. The fanbase is ridiculously small because it appeals only for a very specific group of people (those who like avant jazz, progressive rock and 19th century Wagnerian-style opera). Can Magma be considered legendary?, Yes, inside the zehul circle, but not outside it. There are bands and artists that, inside the avant rock movement, have been much more influential and important, despite not being nearly as as good or as revolutionary.

TL;DR: zehul is great, but in the bigger picture it doesn't matter because it is to small.
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Points: 366 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2010 at 12:57
I guess people will vote Magma for a legend.

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Points: 220 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2010 at 13:31
Ah dear, I deny it no longer. This thread HAS failed. 
Groovy teenage rock with mild prog tendencies: http://www.myspace.com/omniabsenceband
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Points: 366 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2010 at 13:52
But I'm not even a troll :(

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Points: 220 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2010 at 13:59
^ I never said you were. The thread has inevitably failed because we're not even discussing Dream Theater anymore. There have been so many name calling sessions flying around, and various tangents that bear no resemblance to the original topic. I'm not calling anyone out - heck, I got sucked in myself just now to one of the many unrelated conversations, so I can't talk. Nonetheless, this thread has lost the plot.  
Groovy teenage rock with mild prog tendencies: http://www.myspace.com/omniabsenceband
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Points: 17493 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2010 at 16:56
Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:

Originally posted by progressive progressive wrote:

Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:

Originally posted by The T The T wrote:



But fanbases etc... I don't know if it matters. I mean, to me there's very many "legends" that even most proggers haven't heard. One example that everyone knows is Dün. With this I agree. They're legends apparently.. for the 64 people that know them... 



lol, my thoughts on zehul exactly.

Sounds a bit negative (though I don't know what do you exactly mean). Are they inferior to more known legends?


It is simple: zehul is great, but it doesn't mean anything to prog rock, it is secondary at most. The fanbase is ridiculously small because it appeals only for a very specific group of people (those who like avant jazz, progressive rock and 19th century Wagnerian-style opera). Can Magma be considered legendary?, Yes, inside the zehul circle, but not outside it. There are bands and artists that, inside the avant rock movement, have been much more influential and important, despite not being nearly as as good or as revolutionary.

TL;DR: zehul is great, but in the bigger picture it doesn't matter because it is to small.

We differ good Caio... for me Zeuhl just plain sucks.... LOL 

Actually, I haven't heard enough but I just wanted to say that.... 
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Points: 17493 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2010 at 16:57
Originally posted by progressive progressive wrote:

But I'm not even a troll :(

Keep saying PF are not prog and you'll be promoted to one.... Tongue
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Points: 35940 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2010 at 17:08
I don't think Pink Floyd ARE progressive rock, but Pink Floyd did make progressive rock. The "Atom Heart Mother" suite, for instance, is not only progressive rock, but great progressive rock imo. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N89gb2KcdSc I don't think of bands as Prog but music itself as Prog.  Manyy bands that are considered part of the progressive rock movement made Prog, proggy, and non-Prog music.  Is Genesis Prog or pop since it delved into both styles?


Edited by Logan - March 06 2010 at 17:13
Duos for fave acts
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Points: 7971 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2010 at 17:40
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:


It is simple: zehul is great, but it doesn't mean anything to prog rock, it is secondary at most. The fanbase is ridiculously small because it appeals only for a very specific group of people (those who like avant jazz, progressive rock and 19th century Wagnerian-style opera). Can Magma be considered legendary?, Yes, inside the zehul circle, but not outside it. There are bands and artists that, inside the avant rock movement, have been much more influential and important, despite not being nearly as as good or as revolutionary.

TL;DR: zehul is great, but in the bigger picture it doesn't matter because it is to small.

We differ good Caio... for me Zeuhl just plain sucks.... LOL 

Actually, I haven't heard enough but I just wanted to say that.... 


Really? I think it is a pretty amazing sub-genre. I'm not a fanatic though and I certainly do not enjoy it as much as I enjoy other genres *cough* prog metal *cough*, but I can't say I dislike it. It kind of sums up my life: it has two of the oldest passions (classical music, which I studied since I was 3 until recently, and prog rock, which I always liked) plus jazz, which i am discovering now. Although I appreciate more each genre separately, I also enjoy zehul a lot.

PS: but I don't think Dün is really that special. WinkTongue

Originally posted by progressive progressive wrote:

But I'm not even a troll :(




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Points: 7971 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2010 at 17:47
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

I don't think Pink Floyd ARE progressive rock, but Pink Floyd did make progressive rock. The "Atom Heart Mother" suite, for instance, is not only progressive rock, but great progressive rock imo. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N89gb2KcdSc I don't think of bands as Prog but music itself as Prog.  Manyy bands that are considered part of the progressive rock movement made Prog, proggy, and non-Prog music.  Is Genesis Prog or pop since it delved into both styles?


IMO, Pink Floyd was one of the very few (if not the only one) bands who always steered in the progressive genre. The band changed their style more than once, but never sold out like others did. We can argue if they were or not a space rock band though their whole career, but I can't see they not being progressive.


Now, back on topic, me still thinkes DT are lengend bands. LOL
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Points: 12732 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2010 at 00:33
Originally posted by Fieldofsorrow Fieldofsorrow wrote:

Sorry, but I really do find this to be absolutely ridiculous. Please, progressive, make your case for Pink Floyd not being a prog band. You cannot make such a controversial statements without any justification. They are widely regarded as a progressive rock band by the vast majority of people, after all.  


     There's a thread to discuss if PF are progressive, so people might want to check it out and perhaps make their own discussions too. There's also a thread about Dream Theater beeing progressive or not...
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Points: 1 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2010 at 11:38
DREAM THEATER IS DEFINITIVELY LEGENDS  OF ROCK MUSIC IN  THE FIRST PLACE...THEN IN ALL SUB-GENRES...SIMPLY ONE OF THE BEST INVENTIVE BANDS IN THE WORLD EVER!
 I HOPE THAT THEY WILL PLAY, AND MAKE US HAPPY FOR A LONG TIME...REGRETS....
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2010 at 11:46
^ Too loud!
 
What?
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Points: 7971 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2010 at 12:07
Originally posted by markodream2 markodream2 wrote:

DREAM THEATER IS DEFINITIVELY LEGENDS  OF ROCK MUSIC IN  THE FIRST PLACE...THEN IN ALL SUB-GENRES...SIMPLY ONE OF THE BEST INVENTIVE BANDS IN THE WORLD EVER!
 I HOPE THAT THEY WILL PLAY, AND MAKE US HAPPY FOR A LONG TIME...REGRETS....



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Points: 78 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2010 at 14:26
I agree Mark. I have seen D.T. 4 times and they never failed to please and impressStar
Rock is dead. Long live paper and scissors!
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Points: 7559 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2010 at 15:21
Not sure about "legend" - "myth" is probably the word I'd choose.
 
I'm not denying their influence or greatness in the ears of their many fans.
 
But "Prog" metal?
 
Ahem.
 
No.
The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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Points: 1955 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2010 at 17:18
^^ aha, Dream Theater are not Prog Metal? what are they then, thrash metal? doom metal? black / death metal? goth ? power?  I realy want to hear the answer.  
i've read few pages from this thread and i didn't want to engage in the discussion here, DT are one of my favorite bands so i might react more agressively then i should Tongue,  but enough is enough! How can one deny DT being progressive, for god sake they are one of the first prog metal bands ever, they set the standards for prog metal we know today, made many great albums.  Are they legends? not yet, but in the future i am sure they will be. 
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Points: 7559 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2010 at 01:45
Originally posted by angelmk angelmk wrote:

^^ aha, Dream Theater are not Prog Metal? what are they then, thrash metal? doom metal? black / death metal? goth ? power?  I realy want to hear the answer.  
 
These are just labels - and really, if you're asking me which of these labels fits DT best, then it would follow that you can't know much about those "genres".
 
It's quite obvious that Dream Theater play Heavy Metal music, that heavy metal as a genre is inherently progressive on a rough time line, compare Spooky Tooth -> Black Sabbath -> The Sweet -> Judas Priest -> Iron Maiden -> Metallica -> Dream Theater -> [more modern metal bands].
 
The bands I mention are mere examples - but although you can hear progressive ideas in their music, NOT ONE could be considered Prog Metal in the same sense that King Crimson can be considered Prog Rock.
 
Be honest with yourself - I'm right, aren't I.
 
Spastic Ink (or almost any other Jarzombek project) is closer to Prog Metal, as are, say, Beyond the Buried and Me - but those are a bit unfair as choices, since they are later in the metal timeline.
 
Metallica, however, predate Dream Theater - and there is very, very little that DT brought to the table that Metallica hadn't already. If anything, it was Metallica who set the standards that Dream Theater then followed.
 
I'd accept a similar case for Iron Maiden and many other metal bands that predate DT - unless you can provide a half-convincing case that Dream Theater brought something to the music that those bands didn't.
 
 
 
Like I say, be free to enjoy the music - but don't try telling me they're "Prog"!
The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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Points: 78 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2010 at 02:09
I say Prog Rock. D. T. rocks!
Rock is dead. Long live paper and scissors!
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Points: 11415 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2010 at 02:17
Originally posted by Richard House Richard House wrote:

I say Prog Rock. D. T. rocks!


The poster has a command of the written word like that of a tree surgeon with a scalpel.
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